Peak Oil Barrel

Open Thread Non-Petroleum, August 4, 2025

Ovi

Comments not related to oil or natural gas production in this thread please. Thanks.

Ovi

166 responses to “Open Thread Non-Petroleum, August 4, 2025”

  1. JT

    So to put that in context we need to reduce our standards of personal hygiene so unemployed 30 and 40 year old men can play video games and have AI based chat bots. This is not an advanced civilization this is a crumbling one.

    https://consciousnessofsheep.co.uk/2025/08/03/if-only-wed-read-soddy/

    The BLS could fake their numbers for years because of steady demographic growth. Suddenly they’re caught wrong footed because their algorithms no longer work. So every jobs report is adjusted substantially to the down side. It all goes back to one basic unavoidable issue declining net energy per capita. Which is destroying the economy because of no productive capital creation. Because this way of life is unsustainable there is no human way possible to fix the situation. The bubble economy we are living in is starting to burst and will burst completely.

    1. Alimbiquated

      Playing video games certainly wastes less resources than driving to the shopping mall, so it’s a net win.
      I remember teenagers used to cruise up and down the main street in the little Southern town I come from looking for action, and wasting huge amounts of fuel. Now they sit at home and play with their mobile devices.

      You might have some objection to that for moral or other reasons, but there is no question that it is less consumption.

      We are entering the age of “ephemeralization”, as Buckminster Fuller predicted a century ago.

  2. JT

    I’ve been reading this

    https://archive.org/details/soddy-f.-wealth-virtual-wealth-and-debt-1925/page/40/mode/1up

    From 1925

    I’m willing to guess most here haven’t

    I’ll guess that the average reader here doesn’t have enough reading comprehension to absorb what Soddy was saying.

    1. THOMPSON

      A Nobel Laureate no less.
      With a Dream, of abolishing poverty and unemployment. Little did he know that soon the world would be awash in basically free energy and that wealth immobilized in a productive system, trapped in factories and equipment, would soon be liberated by endless cheap debt money available for consumption. At the end of the day energy = consumption and boy didn’t Oil give us a lot of both. His concept of ecological economics would then be buried, until we again reached that point where societal wealth was so unbalanced and energy was once again scarce as far as the plebeians were concerned.

      Unfortunately for Soddy, and his latter day disciples, the reins of wealth and monetary systems have been, and always will be, held firmly in the hands of the Elites of Banking. They control all industry, government, and certainly the universities that teach the pseudoscience of economics. A science, so called, that is nothing more than a complex amalgam of Lies designed to maintain the status Quo. It’s suitably complex because that is the best course for obfuscation.

      Soddy’s ideas are lovely, and any nation that practiced them would no doubt be glorious, a glorious target for invasion by any nation not playing by those rules. In short there is no other system for us than the one we have employed for eons. Once you understand that you’ve learned a real Bene Gesserit lesson.

    2. WeekendPeak

      And 100% reserve banking makes no sense either. And in reality our system is (over) 100% reserve anyway.
      rgds
      WP

  3. hightrekker

    “The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.”
    — Nixon’s Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger. He thought he could count on most people assuming he was only joking. He wasn’t.

    1. Nick G

      Shortly after Donald Trump announced the nomination of Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court, it was revealed that Gorsuch had picked a Henry Kissinger quotation to caption his 1988 Columbia yearbook photograph: “The illegal we do immediately, the unconstitutional takes a little longer.”

      It’s an odd remark for someone whose primary credential is his supposed textual fidelity to the Constitution. But it makes sense, when one considers that Gorsuch hails from a family of political hacks, including a mother, Anne, who was Ronald Reagan’s first director of the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA, signed into law by Kissinger’s boss, Richard Nixon, was but a decade old when Anne Gorsuch took over and, through a combination of corruption, mismanagement, and Trump-style vindictiveness, nearly destroyed it. “Anne Gorsuch inherited one of the most efficient and capable agencies in government,” The New York Times wrote in early 1983. “She has turned it into an Augean stable, reeking of cynicism, mismanagement and decay.”

      https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/about-that-kissinger-quote-neil-gorsuch-likes/

  4. Ron Patterson

    Honda CEO Drops a Bombshell With New Hybrid Engine—EVs Are FINISHED!

    This is a YouTube video, just 8 minutes long. But there are a dozen more that ust popped up on Youtube because Honda just announced a hybred that is supposed to kill the EV market.

    1. Nick G

      This is a stupid title.

      Honda is responding to Trump’s aggressive moves to slow down electrification. It’s rational, but it’s a response to a political development, and has nothing to do with the fundamentals of hybrids vs EVs.

      ““It has become increasingly clear that the environmental regulations, which held promise for the widespread adoption of EVs, are becoming relaxed, mainly in the U.S. and Europe,” Mibe said. “In addition, the recent development in trade policies of various countries makes our business environment increasingly uncertain.

      “If the EV penetration period is pushed back a little, I feel that it will be pushed back by about five years, especially in North America,” Mibe added. “The Trump administration will remain in power for four years, but that doesn’t mean that EV demand will bounce back immediately. I think it will be pushed back by about five to six years.“

      https://www.thedrive.com/news/honda-ceo-is-all-about-hybrids-now-that-ev-adoption-is-pushed-back-5-6-years

    2. Ron Patterson

      Honda has been working on this for over a decade. I hardly think the idiot Donald Trump has anything to do with it. Come up with a different, more plausible theory and I will gladly consider it.

    3. Nick G

      Rond, did you read the article I linked above?

      Find a source better than a youtube video, and I”ll happily read it.

      I suggest you look for information in better places than Youtube, Instagram, Facebook, etc.

    4. Ron Patterson

      Nick G, you have no idea what youtube is. Sure, there is a lot of crap on youtube but that is because anyone can post there if they have a channel, which is not hard to get. But most of the stuff posted there is ligit. I watch the ABC evening news on YouTube. It is the same news posted on ABC but without the commercials. (I have a premium subscription without comercials.)

      Youtube is just like the rest of the world, some bullshit but a lot that is not bullshit. You actuallly get breaking news on YouTube. The exact same breaking news you get on all the other channels.

      So you think everything on YouTube is bullshei? Then you must think everything on TV or in the news is bullshit for it is just a reflection of the world.

    5. Nick G

      Ron,

      Some Youtube content is just fine. But:

      Video is entertainment. If you want your info from entertainment, that’s fine, but it’s entertainment. If you want breaking news, you can get it faster from the website associated with the source – if you want ABC news info, you can get it faster and more accurately from their website. Or CNN’s website, or New York Times, or any reliable online source. Remember – videos don’t have footnotes.

      Video is slow: it takes 10-100 times as long to get information from video. If you want entertainment, if you have the time, that’s fine. I like entertainment sometimes – I watch Rachel Maddow, Colbert, Stewart, etc., just for fun. But if you want information, it’s inferior.

      TV and TV-related video are superficial: it’s just news, not deep background, history or analysis. What they call analysis is mostly speculation and opinion. If you want good information you can start with longer articles, like from The Atlantic, and sometimes you have to…gasp…read a book. Youtube does have longer, more detailed videos, but again – it’s an incredibly slow way to get information, even if they’re good quality, which is…somewhat unlikely.

      Finally, Youtube’s algorithms are evil (this also applies to Facebook and other social media). They show you bad stuff – some of it is stuff that confirms what you already believe, some of it is just malicious misinformation, but if you allow yourself to look at the stuff they throw at you all the time, you’ll go down rabbit holes.

      Just like this fake Honda video.

    6. Ron Patterson

      Nick, you are getting way, way, overly dramatic. Nick, I am 87 years old, and I can remember when there was only radio, no video for the news. And let me tell you, video is so much better. The evening news is just so much better when they show you the video of the floods, or forest fires, or whatever, when you can actually see the disasters.

      Okay, that is settled, Video is 1,000 times better than just audio for news. Now let/s get to other things. I love geology. The geology shows on YouTube are just fantastic. I have watched at least 100 hours on how Washington’s channeled scablands were formed from collapsing ice dams in Missoula Montana. I love Astronomy. I have watched hundreds of hours of Hubble and the Web Telescope pictures of deep space. And I could go on and on. I only wish YouTube videos were there when I was a young man. If they were I would be a lot smarter than I am today.

      So you want to disparage videos. Go ahead. No one is listening because everyone knows better. Everyone knows that video with audio is better that only audio. That is nothing but down in the dirt common sense.

      Bye now.

    7. Nick G

      video is so much better. The evening news is just so much better

      Of course. The evening news is primarily entertainment, and video is much more entertaining radio or print. Everyone agrees.

      Sure, there are entertaining videos on Youtube. Some are educational. But who produced them? An accredited university? Or some guy with a camera? Can you get academic credit? Can a geologist use youtube geology videos to satisfy his continuing education requirement for relicensing? I suspect not.

      you must think everything on TV or in the news is bullshit

      Pretty much, for hard information. Of course, I watch TV for entertainment, but I don’t expect to learn medicine from Grey’s Anatomy. ABC News isn’t exactly fake news, but “if it bleeds, it leads”. That’s not good quality information.

      Of course, there’s Fox, which is absolutely fake, and which provides “news” to many people. If you sue Fox, their defense is that they are entertainment and no reasonable person should believe them!!

      It’s worth saying that all “news”, whether it’s radio, video or print, is low quality. It’s really a waste of time if you want information. It’s oriented around providing small bits of information about scary problems of various sorts. Of course, most people just want entertainment, even if they don’t realize it.

      Worse, news is very bad for your mental health, because it’s all about the problems on the horizon, the scary stuff. No one publishes newspapers that provide a balanced picture of the world, because that…would be boring. It’s a fundamental problem.

      What’s much worse, social media like Youtube, X, and Facebook is full of bullshit. It’s worse than actual bullshit: it’s deliberately false, destructive misinformation, fed up to consumers who are unaware of what they’re being fed.

      Remember what started this discussion: a destructive, fake video.

    8. got2surf

      Media literacy is so much more important now than ever. And now we are poised on the edge of AI takeover of everything video and text (text especially).

      What is the news? The news is what they are not telling you on your platform of choice. While the medium shapes the message.

      I think Nick nailed it on this one.

    9. Han Neumann

      YouTube is (also) great for watching and listening music video’s !

    10. LeeG

      Bike racing coverage is fantastic.

    11. THOMPSON

      Either way, Honda engines are very reliable. A vid comparing a Honda Gen set and a Chinese knockoff. You waste your money buying Chinese engines
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtUtORbNLsA

    12. LeeG

      We have two Thunder Horse / Harbor Freight inverter generators needing renovation. Chinese copy of the 3500 and 2000 Honda models. They cannot be left for 6 mo w fuel in them. China can make good things, just not for the cheapest price.

    13. THOMPSON

      Yeah I had one of those, an Aldi 2200W. If you didn’t start it every month it wouldn’t start at all after 6. I pulled down the carb once and got it running, the next time it failed to start I just gave it to an indebted neighbor and went and bought a Honda.

    14. LeeG

      I thought we’d been on it but at the latest power outage I pulled them out and nothing. Put gasoline in the little one and it started pouring out like a fuel line was open. The other one had a dead starter battery and also had fuel problems. We’ve been using no ethanol gasoline but not good enough. Next time around should have got a dual fuel propane generator.

    15. Carnot

      Ron, I think you have been hoodwinked. I have seen two YT videos and they are both nonsense. They are a wind up pure and simple. They are not making some low or even zero emissions super efficient hybrid that uses a capacitor rather than a battery.
      I am all for hybrids , I have two and I recommend them. The video was a wind-up.

    16. Ron Patterson

      Carnot. No, I have not been hoodwinked. To be hoodwinked I would have had to make some statement that implied that I believed this new Honda thing, whatever it is, would do this or do that. I made no such statement! All I posted was “Honda just announced a hybrid that is supposed to kill the EV market.” I did not say that I believed it would kill the EV market, only that was what Honda claimed.

      I have no idea whether this new hybrid will do. Only time will tell us that. But I will make one statement as to what I believe or disbelieve. I believe, whatever it is, Is not a wind-up! Carnot, let us not get ridiculous. Call it anything but just don’t get silly.

    17. Bob Nickson

      Did Honda claim that though?
      Perplexity.ai says: “Claims that Honda or its CEO has definitively stated they have an engine that will “kill” or “outcompete” EVs are circulating widely in social media videos, but there is no official, verifiable Honda statement substantiating this claim.”

    18. Alimbiquated

      Honda is a bit like BMW. Both are true masters of the internal combustion engine. Both have huge internal pressure not to give up on the technology that made them great. Worldwide sales are down 20% since their 2019 peak.

      Honda has made a lot of great products in its day, but the best is probably its world-beating portable diesel generators.

      Meanwhile the once mighty Nissan looks like it’s dying. Honda was going to take it over but they realized it wouldn’t help.

    19. sgp99

      Yeah I’ve got a CR-V and it runs like a champ.

      But…shhh, don’t tell all those guys with pickups and muscle cars, because of course I’m just a pansy latte sipper who thinks about stuff like reliability and efficiency, and I don’t want them causing me any trouble.

    20. Han Neumann

      Problem with Honda is the noise in the cabin.
      I had a City and now a BR-V. Both very noisy above 40-50 mph speed.

    21. LeeG

      I’d need some more context for projected sales of the different vehicle segments to make sense of the topic. Methinks driving less will make a bigger difference than type of motor as turnover is slow.

    22. Nick G

      In an emergency the sensible thing would be car-pooling.

      Absent an emergency, a carbon tax (aka a fuel tax) would be the best option: it would reduce driving, push people to use more efficient vehicles in the existing fleet, and incentivize buying more efficient vehicles.

      Sadly, that’s very unlikely in the current environment. The only reason we have CAFE regulations and not a carbon tax is that the FF industry knows very, very well how effective fuel taxes are, and they work ferociously to kill them.

    23. LeeG

      The faux fiscal conservatives pulled off an impressive transition on the
      Highway Trust Fund from pay as you go to “ let the grandkids pay for it” while exploding the Schedule 179 deduction for light truck vehicles in the late ‘90’s. It’s like squeezing a balloon try to escape consequences. Fuel is cheap but the cost of ownership keeps creeping higher. So much inertia in the system.
      I sure was wrong about peak oil 20 yrs ago. $2.75 here in rural Tennessee. Daughter and son-in-law bought a 15 yr old short bus that gets 10mpg. He commutes 20 m/d in a diesel ‘97 F250 that gets 12-15mpg. In 1974 I was riding a bicycle to trade school expecting the future to be a continuation of fuel supply disruptions. Oy vey

    24. Nick G

      “while exploding the Schedule 179 deduction for light truck vehicles in the late ‘90’s.”

      Don’t forget the Chicken Tax, which made light trucks (SUVs and pickups) much more profitable than sedans:

      “The Chicken Tax is a 25 percent tariff on light trucks (and originally on potato starch, dextrin, and brandy) imposed in 1964 by the United States under President Lyndon B. Johnson in response to tariffs placed by France and West Germany on importation of U.S. chicken.[1] The period from 1961 to 1964[2] of tensions and negotiations surrounding the issue was known as the “Chicken War”, taking place at the height of Cold War politics.[3]

      Eventually, the tariffs on potato starch, dextrin, and brandy were lifted,[4] but since 1964 this form of protectionism has remained in place to give US domestic automakers an advantage over imported competitors.[5] ”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

    25. Nick G

      Carpooling – a blast from the past:

    26. LeeG

      It works better than attempting to reconfigure a 3600 lb sedan for one person into a 4200lb sedan for one person.

    27. Alimbiquated

      This conversation reminds me that Americans haven’t really grasped how much their way of life is changing. The idea that EVs can’t replace ICEs is part of the “business as usual” pipe dream.

      The country has been on a car dependency binge since the 1950s and still somehow imagines the country is somehow the “greatest in the world” and that there is no option other that to keep revving up the engines.

      The America car market is basically dead. Average new cars cost over $50K. New car loans are over 7% and run seven years. Subprime borrowers (aka the poor) are paying 20% interest for used cars and paying $30K for three year old vehicles. Average monthly car payments are an insane $751, about $9 000 a year.

      https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/average-car-loan-interest-rates-by-credit-score

      Delinquency rates are soaring. One in ten cars loans in Mississippi is behind in payments.

      https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/delinquency-rates-study/

      Now the Republican taxes are going to hit. There was a mini-spike in car buying when the news came out, but sales are down. The trump-fueled delusion is that tariffs affect foreign cars only, but there are no American cars. Supply chains are thoroughly international, even you red white and blue spangled F-150 is 70% foreign.

      Here are two hard truths: First, Henry Ford’s dream of a cars-only transportation system is dead. Second, America’s car industry has been trashed beyond repair, and cannot fuel American prosperity.

      With Americans paying about $12 000 a year just to maintain their vehicles, how are they going to compete with a country like China, whose per capita GDP has recently risen to about $13 000, or India, hovering around $3 000?

      Cheap Chinese EVs may help a little, but America needs to move to compacter living arrangements and cheaper transportation options including public transportation and micro mobility. Car mania has got to end.

    28. sgp99

      Indeed but it just won’t.

      Driving around DFW lately, you wouldn’t even believe it was possible there could be this many cars. Like, there couldn’t be this much aluminum and steel and plastic and rubber and glass and fuel and whatever else in the world. You have to see it to believe it, you have to drive around and all of the roads and parking lots are filled with cars, 24/7, to grasp how much of a hold the automobile has on the American psyche.

      I am now convinced that I personally won’t witness the end. 4 dollar, 5 dollar, 10 dollar gas, 100 thousand dollar loans, 20,000 dollar a year running costs, none of it will make a dent. There’s enough shale and tar sands and what’s left of conventional to push this out decades and I will be well into my 60s by then.

    29. LeeG

      That looks like clickbait w artificial voice from script. I don’t find an Mbox Honda but there is an NBox small car.

    30. Bob Nickson

      Click bait video title with a description which doesn’t match the content.

      I read through the entire transcript three times. The word ‘electric’ appears once:

      “Today is the era of electric. Yet, why are people liking this petrol car of Honda?”

      There is no mention of this engine being rotary, or hybrid engine in the video or anything about its use in a hybrid powertrain. This is the entirety of the video’s description of the engine:

      “The NVOX comes with Honda’s 660cm 3cylinder engine. Now you must be
      thinking what is the use of such a small engine? But this is where Honda’s
      technology is amazing. This small engine is very efficient. This means that it
      gives good mileage even after consuming less petrol. Not only this, it also
      comes with a turbocharged version. So it is also good for those who want a little more power.”

      That’s it. Nothing more. No explanation of how this heralds the end of EV’s.

    31. LeeG

      Bothersome how much YouTube content is that kind of noise. Although a three cylinder 660cc engine sounds wonderful in a 2000lb vehicle.

    32. Nick G

      just for fun:

    33. Nick G

      And, while I’m on a roll, China’s Peak ICE

    34. Iver

      China is destroying the planet burning 4.9 billion tonnes of coal this year.

      The water issue in China will crush its industrial base and it will serve them right.

      https://www.bakerinstitute.org/research/how-chinas-water-challenges-could-lead-global-food-and-supply-chain-crisis

      Just one year of poor rain will push China over the edge

      https://english.ckgsb.edu.cn/knowledge/article/when-the-taps-run-dry-how-water-shortages-threaten-northern-china/

    35. THOMPSON

      And it’s where most of the EV and EV batteries are made IVER. They are not Green, they just burn their FF out of sight before they get in our showrooms. And if they are charged off a coal fired grid it makes them even worse for the environment. I never believed the EV was the solution to anything other than the problem of having to coverup the fact we are running out of affordable oil. Those and the alternate energy machines just kept the masses quiet for 15 years, believing there was a solution to oil depletion. Damage control for business as usual.

    36. JJHMAN

      I think if you look at the numbers you will see that EVs are cleaner than gasoline powered vehicles. Most people don’t realizes how poor the efficiency of IC engines are compared to a simple electric motor.
      Here’s some sample data:
      https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric-emissions
      Obviously done before Trump took over the DOE, so likely good data.

    37. chilyb

      in total china is making more cars than ever.

    38. Alimbiquated

      Yes, China is running away with the car market.

      https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/car-production-by-country

    39. LeeG

      Here’s what I’m talking about.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEk_orcwkZU

      It’s supposedly a Rachel Maddow commentary but not posted by MSNBC and after awhile you’ll realize it’s all created content. The visual isn’t real anymore.

    40. THOMPSON

      Seems like you weren’t the only one that took offense to it LEEG 😉

      — This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated.–

  5. Jean-François Fleury

    Here are reactions from scientists about the report published on July 29 by the DOE. “US government climate report accused of distorting scientific studies
    The document, published on July 29, sets out the arguments that led the Trump administration to reverse a key 2009 decision on regulating greenhouse gas emissions on Tuesday, further undermining the fight against climate change in the United States. Leading scientists told Agence France-Presse (AFP) on Thursday, July 31, that their research, cited in a landmark report from the US Department of Energy, had been misused to minimize the role of human activity in climate change.
    The report, released July 29, outlines the arguments that led the Trump administration to reverse a key 2009 decision on regulating greenhouse gas emissions on Tuesday, further undermining the fight against climate change in the United States. It was written by a working group that included John Christy and Judith Curry, both formerly associated with the Heartland Institute, a lobbying group that frequently challenges the scientific consensus on climate change.
    The document “completely distorts my work,” Benjamin Santer, a climatologist and honorary professor at the University of East Anglia in the United Kingdom, told AFP. He explained that a section of the report on “stratosphere cooling” contradicted his conclusions. AFP and other media outlets, including the American news site Notus, found inaccurate quotes, faulty analyses, and editorial errors in the report.
    This is the third time in 2025 that scientists have complained to AFP that a US government agency has distorted academic research to justify its decisions. In May, the White House notably moved quickly to amend a report on diseases affecting young Americans, which was initially based on nonexistent scientific studies.
    “I am concerned that a government agency has published a report intended to inform the public and guide policy without undergoing a rigorous peer-review process, while misinterpreting many studies that have been,” Bor-Ting Jong, an assistant professor at the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam, told AFP. She pointed out that the document contained false claims about the climate model her team studied and used different terminology that led to misinterpretation of its results.
    James Rae, a climate researcher at the University of St Andrews in Scotland, who also criticised the US Department of Energy’s report for misrepresenting his work, told AFP that the shift in the administration’s use of science was “truly chilling”; it “has been at the forefront of scientific research for decades. Yet [its] report reads like an undergraduate exercise in distorting climate science,” he added.
    Contacted by AFP, a ministry spokesperson said the document in question had been reviewed internally by a group of scientists and public policy experts. The public will now have the opportunity to comment on its contents before its final publication in the Federal Register.”

    1. Alimbiquated

      Who is fueling climate disinformation and why…
      https://www.euronews.com/green/2025/07/31/politicians-oil-companies-and-russia-whos-fuelling-climate-disinformation-and-why

    2. Nick G

      “Where is climate misinformation coming from?
      The report analysed 300 studies on climate disinformation over the last decade. Based on these studies, several key figures responsible for spreading misinformation were identified:

      Corporations and companies associated with fossil fuels or oil.
      Right-wing politicians, including Donald Trump, and in Europe, among others, the AfD party (Germany), Vox (Spain) and the National Rally (France).
      States, services and troll farms – the report cites a study documenting the role of so-called ‘Russian troll farms’ in spreading anti-scientific and pseudo-scientific content on social media site X.
      Think tanks and PR organisations supporting corporate interests – the report mentions, among others, the Heartland Institute and the Cato Institute.
      Media and bots that contribute to the spread of disinformation.
      These entities, listed on the basis of the analysed studies, use separate disinformation strategies.”

  6. Jean-François Fleury

    Here is the list of the authors of this rag :
    John Christy, Ph.D.
    Judith Curry, Ph.D.
    Steven Koonin, Ph.D.
    Ross McKitrick, Ph.D.
    Roy Spencer, Ph.D.
    A page of links from realclimate.org regarding what the scientists are thinking about this ; https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2025/07/the-endangerment-of-the-endangerment-finding/
    And a little reminder regarding the lack of scientific rigor, methodological rigor and apparent dishonesty (in my view) of three of the authors (Roy Spencer, Steven Koonin and John Christy); always on the same blog : https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2025/07/melange-a-trois/

    1. Nick G

      I think of Trump as an errand boy for 2 groups:

      the very wealthy, who want to sabotage government (and especially regulatory agencies like the EPA, SEC, Consumer protection, etc.,) in order to be free do what they want, and,

      The FF industry, who wants the same.

      Both groups see government and the professional middle class (scientists, engineers, researchers, professors, journalists) as the enemy. They want to cripple or subjugate their enemy. You’ll notice the attacks on research and universities – this is no accident.

    2. JJHMAN

      My even less kind view of the entire situation is that Trump will go down in history as one of the greatest swindlers in history.
      -His motivations are entirely personal. He doesn’t care about other wealthy people, the FF industry, or his his most fervent followers. He cares about DJ Trump only. He would sell his daughter for a good headline.
      -His skill is is dragging the lowest human urges out of people and convinces them that he will deliver whatever they want. He has delivered tax breaks for the very wealthy, reduced regulation for polluting industries, social regression for the haters.
      -He has done none all of that for his followers. He does, not for them, but because it brings to him adulation, grifting opportunities, and power.

    3. Carnot

      Maybe you should reflect on the blatant fabrication of Michael Mann’s hockey stick data. When the data did not fit he made it up, and then claimed he had won a Nobel prize (which he did not ).
      Call me a denier if you wish but please tell me how 400 ppm of 0.85 of carbon dioxide per cubic metre causes runaway global warming. Try looking at water vapour which is present in much higher concentrations and is a far stronger IR absorber.

    4. gerryf

      Carnot:
      Call me a denier if you wish but please tell me how 400 ppm of 0.85 of carbon dioxide per cubic metre causes runaway global warming. Try looking at water vapour which is present in much higher concentrations and is a far stronger IR absorber.

      You may not be a denier, but if you don’t know the history of how the science developed, your opinions on climate change are just uninformed. The history of the physics stretches back more than 200 years and if you look at the historical record, your comment dates the depth of your knowledge back to the science of 1901. But even in 1901, there was science showing that the 1901 view was wrong.

    5. Nick G

      Oh, my. FF propaganda.

    6. JJHMAN

      HOCKEY STICK :
      Columnists Rand Simberg and Mark Steyn criticized Mann, the hockey stick graph, and an investigation conducted by Penn State into allegations of wrongdoing by Mann. Simberg’s and Steyn’s comments, which appeared in blogs hosted by the Competitive Enterprise Institute and National Review Online, employed pungent language, accusing Mann of, among other things, “misconduct,” “wrongdoing,” and the “manipulation” and “tortur[e]” of data.
      (CEI was a member of the advisory board of Project 2025, a collection of conservative and right-wing policy proposals from the Heritage Foundation to reshape the United States federal government and consolidate executive power should the Republican nominee win the 2024 presidential election, from June 2022 through March 2024. Climate deniers all.)
      Following those accusations, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the National Science Foundation, and seven other organizations launched an investigation against Mann’s work, but ultimately found the claims to be baseless, and that his research and conclusions were properly conducted and fairly presented.
      ..
      D.C. Superior Ct. Judge Alfred Irving in Mann v. National Review, Inc. declined to disturb the jury’s findings that defendants had libeled plaintiff—including that their statements were recklessly or knowingly false..
      https://reason.com/volokh/2025/03/04/punitive-damages-award-in-mann-v-steyn-reduced-from-1m-to-5k/
      XX
      NOBEL PRIZE
      In 2007, Vice President Al Gore and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, received the Nobel Peace Prize for establishing the link between human activities and global warming. Mann’s website says “He contributed, with other IPCC authors, to the award of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize.”
      I cannot find on line any claims by Mann that he won an individual Nobel prize. I was, however, able to find multiple cases where he was introduced by other parties as a prize winner and a lot of climate deniers, who have lied about everything else, claim that he did so. Since the ones that I found were sued by Mann an lost I think it’s safe to assume that it’s just another denier lie paid for by the fossil fuel industry.
      https://www.scrippsnews.com/science-and-tech/climate-change/renowned-climate-scientist-s-12-year-defamation-lawsuit-goes-to-trial
      XX

      That water vapor excuse has been dealt with decades ago.
      You can start here if you really care about the truth:
      https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/why-do-we-blame-climate-change-carbon-dioxide-when-water-vapor-much-more-common-greenhouse
      Can you share a source that shows CO2 to be irrelevant?

    7. Nick G

      Good for you for providing good information.

      One thought: I would give up on trying to engage these FF advocates. If you have the time, it’s great to provide good information for other readers, but I wouldn’t worry about trying to get a sensible response from those who post such stuff. As far as engagement goes, I think DFTT is sensible.

    8. T HILL

      Nick G,

      You make good points.

      There really is quite a bit of value in providing good information for other readers, which is why I had recently posted the other two EROI references you noted below. How many lurkers are out there trying to learn a bit more about one topic or another? Point your comments to them if you’ve ever learned something here on POB yourself. There is value even on a topic like climate change where the wealth of information seems readily accessible to answer the ignorance and malice. In this case, the depth of information is a bit of a challenge all by itself.

  7. Doug Leighton

    Attention Climate Change deniers

    SUMMER 2025 ALREADY A CAVALCADE OF CLIMATE EXTREMES

    “Record heat, massive fires, deadly floods… August has barely begun, but the summer of 2025 is already marked by a cascade of destructive and deadly weather in the Northern Hemisphere. According to the European Union’s Copernicus weather and climate observatory, total smoke and greenhouse gas emissions since the beginning of summer in the Northern Hemisphere are among the highest ever recorded.”

    https://phys.org/news/2025-08-summer-cavalcade-climate-extremes.html

    1. THOMPSON

      It amazes me there are so many deniers, and even among the confessors there is a big split with many believing it’s not man caused. A lack of basic scientific knowledge is the reason I believe. They think watching youtubes about science makes them scientifically literate but you have to read text books and articles for that. Having a broad science background also, understanding the basics of all the disciplines. These scientists in denial are typically not from climatology either, stuck in their own disciplines for years they think it gives them authority to speak on others. CO2 heating is basic Chemistry and was proven in the lab over 100 years ago, there’s no ambiguity, just politicians wanting to maintain the current order for their own purposes. People too are in denial for the same reason, who wants to give up driving.

    2. JJHMAN

      There are actually a number highly trained scientists who are deniers or at least profess so in public. This is more about values than data.

    3. Nick G

      True.

      It’s worth noting that such scientists are a small minority. They get disproportionate airtime from right-wing media…

    4. THOMPSON

      To me the debate is over and it’s more about what I see physically happening, like the melting glaciers and polar caps. I imagine a bowl with a large block of ice floating in the middle, this was the arctic ocean decades ago. Now I take a hammer and smash the ice up, it will spread out, covering a large area but will be thin and have the consistency of a Slushy. That pretty much describes what has happened up there. There is a lot less ice but it’s spread out, It looks as big as ever but you can sail a ship right over to the north geographic pole. The French have tourist ships that regularly go there now.
      https://www.timeout.com/news/the-worlds-first-ice-breaking-cruise-sails-to-the-north-pole-this-summer-050922

      In 1990- Could Arctic ice be thinning?
      https://www.nature.com/articles/345762a0
      In 2004- Changes in the thickness distribution of Arctic sea ice between 1958–1970 and 1993–1997
      https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2003JC001982

      That data keeps piling up, and an ice free arctic is a done deal now. that will be a tipping point I imagine, one leading to rapid heating and destabilization of the methane hydrates and tundra probably. The scientists chatter endlessly about sea ice coverage but that is not the issue, the issue is how thin has it become. it’s very thin now, less than 2m on average. Good for submarines and ICBMs I suppose. The time might come JJHMAN when we come out at night to work and spend our days sequestered in cool rooms, I’m a night owl, I’m already set up for that 🙂

  8. Iver

    Forest destruction is causing more climate change locally and globally than CO2.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/how-cutting-the-amazon-forest-could-affect-weather

    Cut down 15 billion trees in all directions from where you live and you will see a vast increase in floods, scorching hot days and soil erosion.

    Ploughing is the primary cause of the loss of 70 billion tonnes of food producing top soil. Conversely regenerative farming methods are shown to increase carbon uptake. Pity the money needed to protect the forests and soil is spent on sexy things like this.

    https://www.cnet.com/pictures/meet-the-navys-new-13-billion-aircraft-carrier/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxYem4xtHBw

    Anyone who thinks we can fix any of the dire problems facing us while spending $1.7 trillion on arms simply does not understand why the deforestation and soil erosion are occurring.

  9. THOMPSON

    We’re not supposed to fix the dire problems, that should be obvious from the last 20 years of inaction. I don’t know why people even bother fretting about it anymore? We’re supposed to live life and wait for the collapse of industrial society, then 8 billion people will be freed up to go out and cut grass and trim trees by hand, but planting the carbon 6 feet underground this time. Within about 3~4 years the CO2 content will be drastically reduced.

    So live it up like the other 80% or so of the western world, relax, it’ll all work it, you’ll see.

    1. kolbeinih

      Sure

      Every job that smells of routine is supposed to get automated away. My father didn’t bother to teach me how to use the scythe. It represented a security risk when not done properly (which is true). And it would not be necessary in a progress orient society the way boomers see it. Still, if you can use the scythe and somehow have access to a reliable and cheap water source. Then together with natural fertilizers and land management you actually can get a very good EROEI the old way if technology fails. But my father didn’t teach me how to use the scythe. I guess someone will sort out what skill sets we need for the future – a need for some governance after all?

  10. Doug Leighton

    Sounds like yet another place where climate change has already arrived.

    PERITO MORENO GLACIER’S RETREAT ACCELERATES, RAISING CONCERNS ABOUT FUTURE STABILITY

    “The Perito Moreno Glacier in Argentina—often described as one of the most stable glaciers in Patagonia—is retreating far more rapidly than previously thought, according to a paper in Communications Earth & Environment. The results show that over the last few years, the glacier has retreated by as much as 800 meters in some areas, and that it may collapse and retreat by several kilometers in the near future.”

    https://phys.org/news/2025-08-perito-moreno-glacier-retreat-future.html

    1. Doug Leighton

      Meanwhile,

      ARGENTINA FINALLY EMERGES AS A SOUTH AMERICAN OIL POWERHOUSE

      • The Vaca Muerta shale play, discovered in Argentina, contains an estimated 16 billion barrels of recoverable shale oil and 308 trillion cubic feet of shale gas, making it one of the top five unconventional hydrocarbon formations globally.
      • Argentina’s crude oil production reached an average of 771,888 barrels per day in June 2025, with over 62% attributed to shale oil, positioning the country as Latin America’s fourth largest oil producer.
      • Significant infrastructure upgrades and substantial investment, including a nearly $36 billion investment plan by national oil company YPF from 2025 to 2030, are poised to further increase Argentina’s hydrocarbon output.

      https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Argentina-Finally-Emerges-as-a-South-American-Oil-Powerhouse.html

  11. John Norris

    The FAO [Global] Food Price Index averaged 130.1 points in July 2025, up 1.6 percent from June and 7.6 percent higher than in July 2024. It remains 18.8 percent. below its peak reached in March 2022.

    Last 2 years by sector:

    1. THOMPSON

      I read that story, it’s probably one of the most under reported ones ones the planet, yet we all have to Eat. It’s like the story about data centers consuming 8.9% of the total power share in the US, that’s not a problem, it’s a success they say.
      There is a lot of waste on the planet, but when the ghost acres we have enjoyed with fossil fuel fertilizers and pesticides disappear the food situation will get critical. Of course like all these “Critical” changes it will take time to reach the end phase and in the meanwhile the techno-cornucopian wind socks will bleat that things are ok still, “and in the future…, Fusion, A.I., Robots”, add your favorite techno fix.” As for me, I form bonds with farmers out in my rural area.

  12. Opritov Alexander

    Details of secret Russian operation in Ukraine revealed
    “Tsargrad”: Russian special forces conducted a secret operation “Skat-12” in the Nikolaev region.

    At the end of July, Russian special forces conducted a secret operation “Skat-12”, landing troops in Ochakov, Nikolaev region of Ukraine. This was reported by Tsargrad.tv.

    It is noted that the target of the operation was the base of the Ukrainian 73rd naval center of special operations, where military instructors from Great Britain were located. Thanks to the work of the Russian special forces, it was possible to capture high-ranking British military personnel, who, as they say, are involved in the strikes of Storm Shadow cruise missiles on Russian territory and the training of saboteurs.

    The publication claims that the Russian special forces caught the British by surprise. They asked the Russians not to shoot at them. The foreign instructors were captured along with their documents and in full gear. The Russian military personnel captured Colonel Edward Blake from the Special Psychological Operations Directorate, Lieutenant Colonel Richard Carroll from the UK Ministry of Defence and an intelligence officer.

    According to Tsargrad, Operation Skat-12 was the first time high-ranking British military personnel were captured in the area of a Russian special operation. The prisoners provided important information about London’s future plans, which could help Moscow act proactively. In particular, they admitted that an attack on tankers of the Russian shadow fleet was being prepared, the report says.

    It was previously reported that Russian special forces captured British officers in Ochakov.
    https://www.gazeta.ru/army/news/2025/08/06/26435888.shtml?ysclid=me2q6z7pni151456429&updated

    1. Nick G

      Wow – obvious Russian propaganda!

    2. Opritov Alexander

      Perhaps you are right and this is propaganda, usually the Russian authorities do not report such events, but in this case, reports appeared in several news agencies, which had not happened before. I also consider the reality of these events with a probability of 50%. There are also rumors that during the war in Ukraine, senior NATO officers died, whose deaths were attributed by the official authorities of the countries to various aviation incidents, accidents and the like, and I believe this to be true.

    3. Nick G

      Rumors? Of mysterious deaths? Of officers from the boogeyman Nato??

      Such propaganda!

    4. Opritov Alexander

      The presence of NATO officers on Ukrainian territory, I think, is obvious because Ukraine was given a large amount of modern and complex military equipment and I think it is impossible to train them to handle it in a short time. But the pilots of Western aircraft are still probably Ukrainians, and the ground support of the flight equipment is most likely Western.

    5. Survivalist

      NATO is not “in Ukraine”. Many NATO members are in Ukraine, and Ukraine sends its soldiers abroad to many countries that are NATO members for training, but NATO is not “in Ukraine”. NATO HQ does do some coordinating of the assistance being provided to Ukraine by its members. The distinction is lost on those that write bullshit reports. That story is not propaganda. It’s click bait. It’s too stupid to be propaganda.

    6. Alimbiquated

      If there are NATO forces in Ukraine, it’s none of Russia’s business.
      You report is Russian propaganda because it is the Russian regime trying to pretend that what goes on in Ukraine is their business. It isn’t.

    7. Nick G

      It’s fascinating to look at Russian justifications for invading Ukraine. It seems to add up to “We really, really want it. All Russians want it. So, we deserve to have it, and you in the West shouldn’t help Ukraine, because…we really want it.”

    8. JJHMAN

      The history between Russia and Ukraine is so complex that one could justify anything and find an historical story to back it up. I thought it would be easy to just say “Have an election” but Russia did that in Crimea and probably set a world’s record in ballot box stuffing. If there was an election today in the Russian occupied territories the result would be the same.
      Very simply, Putin wants to recreate the USSR. Ukraine is the largest and most valuable part missing. Likely this war will go on as long as he is alive.

    9. Nick G

      JJHman,

      I agree.

      One thought: I think the USSR was pretty much the previous Russian empire, prettied up with idealistic language (and, to be fair, some action) about protecting workers.

    10. Opritov Alexander

      “The history of relations between Russia and Ukraine is so complicated that you can find an excuse and a historical background for anything. I thought it would be easy to just say, “Let’s hold elections!”, but Russia did it in Crimea and probably set a world record for ballot stuffing.”
      —
      You have absolutely incorrect information related to the lies of the Western media. As for Crimea, there is more than 80% of the Russian population and about 90% of citizens support the transition to the Russian Federation. In this case, ballot stuffing was not needed. Even before the arrival of the armed media, citizens gathered military units and began to guard the borders with Ukraine.
      ===
      “Simply put, Putin wants to recreate the USSR. Ukraine is its largest and most valuable part, which is missing. This war will probably continue as long as he lives.”
      —
      I hope it ends during Putin’s presidency. Most likely, this is his last presidential term. Support for his foreign policy is enormous, although everyone wants to end the war, the majority on our terms.

    11. Hickory

      If there had previously been any doubt, the Russian invasion of Ukraine gives all justification needed to bring Ukraine into Nato.
      The only reason to hold off on Nato membership for Ukraine is if Russia undertakes a complete withdraw from Ukraine, including Crimea.

    12. Opritov Alexander

      “If NATO troops are in Ukraine, it does not concern Russia. Your report is Russian propaganda, because the Russian regime is trying to pretend that what is happening in Ukraine is its business. It is not.”
      —
      Think as you like, the Russian Federation has decided that this matter concerns our interests and is acting in accordance with them.
      Anything that does not coincide with your views is deliberate propaganda.

    13. Alimbiquated

      Opritov Alexander
      Russian Federation has decided that this matter concerns our interests

      QED

    14. Nick G

      It seems quite clear that Russia is stuck in the mindset of empire, a mindset that is obsolete. Look at Japan and the UK, both of which are far more affluent than when they had an empire. Russia is trying to regain historical affluence and prestige by rebuilding it’s empire, and that’s just an incredible, tragic waste.

      I understand the perspective: the US fought a civil war to keep the South. I’d feel sad if Texas were to secede. But the age of empire is over, and Ukraine really, really, really wants to be independent.

      Russia signed a treaty guaranteeing Ukraine’s independence. Ukraine voted 90% to be independent. Ukraine is fighting far harder than Russians expected – they really want to be independent.

      Russia’s invasion was an epic mistake, and it should give up on this war. Sadly, that seems unlikely anytime soon, and this tragic war will continue, with or without Trump and the USA.

      And yes, the stuff you’ve been repeating is definitely propaganda. War propaganda, usually the worst and most dishonest propaganda.

    15. JJHMAN

      It seems that the British aren’t admitting it, claiming AI photographs in Russian news outlets. It’s hard not to think of President Eisenhower denying U2 flights over Russia until the Russians produced Gary Francis Powers in the flesh.
      Time will tell.

  13. Doug Leighton

    Yet another ecological treasure chest at risk.

    PATAGONIA PREPARES FOR THE LARGEST CRUDE OIL EXPORT PORT IN ARGENTINA

    “…this rich ecosystem and Unesco world heritage site could soon be lost. A consortium of oil majors led by the state-run energy company YPF, along with Shell and Chevron, is pushing ahead with plans for the country’s largest crude oil export port and a fossil gas liquefaction ship in the gulf.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/aug/08/argentina-patagonia-valdes-peninsula-oil-vaca-muerta-whales-wildlife-spills-coast

    1. Doug Leighton

      Meanwhile, more bloody fires.

      RAPIDLY SPREADING BRUSH FIRE PROMPTS EVACUATIONS FOR THOUSANDS IN CALIFORNIA

      “A brush fire in a mountainous area of Ventura county, north of Los Angeles, ignited and spread quickly on Thursday, forcing thousands of evacuations. The Canyon fire ignited around 1.30pm, growing to over 7.6 sq miles (19.7 sq km) by 11pm, according to authorities. It remained 0% contained on Thursday evening and was spreading east, the county said.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/08/california-canyon-fire

    2. THOMPSON

      Don’t build your house in a forest is the key takeaway, but people go where they are told, like in the Matrix.

    3. Survivalist

      I have a place in the forest; a fire guard around structures and metal roof/siding is just fine; don’t stack firewood against a structure; trees should be 3 times their height away from anything important.

    4. THOMPSON

      3x might do it SURVIVALIST, though it sounds like an average to me, a prescribed radius recommended in manuals. Like the height of the Tsunami walls they built in Japan, that ultimately proved inadequate in the 2011 event. I lived on large acreage myself and moved because of all the downsides. Now in a small rural town with decent neighbors all around and not many high trees, we watch out for each other. I look at those Californian suburbs and wonder how the fire could have leapt across to destroy every house. Just a very big very ferocious fire I suppose. That coupled with highly combustible pine frame houses clad in plywood I believe?

    5. Survivalist

      It’s not hard to protect structures from forest fire. Problem is, most people are oblivious and have combustible roofs, firewood stacked against the house, and continuous trees right up to the cedar shakes.

    6. LeeG

      “I look at those Californian suburbs and wonder how the fire could have leapt across to destroy every house. Just a very big very ferocious fire I suppose“

      Imagine bracing your body against a 45 mph gale but instead of it being wet and stormy it’s hot and dry. Like you could dehydrate something in a day. Toss a leaf and it flies for 1/4 mile before touching ground. I grew up in Bakersfield and even though our school was in a suburb about a half mile from open scrub one late September wind brought thousands of tumbleweeds up from the bluffs and pile up on the 8’ fence for hundred yards. Bone dry tumbleweeds.
      So when these winds blast down onto suburbs it’s the same as a forced air furnace. I was part of a cleanup crew in the Berkeley/Oakland Hills fire and some houses were blasted to the foundation with puddles of metal in the down hill corners. The ground around the house was blasted like a jet engine scoured the ground. This isn’t a bonfire out of control this is a blast furnace where winds and geography send fire sideways 1000’ as well as upwards. One of the houses we cleaned around was all cinderblock, tile roof, no flammable vegetation but everything inside was cooked with an incandescent bulb sagging down partially melted. This house was on a forested overlook but the houses down slope amongst the pines were the fuel.

      Here’s an old clip about SantaAna winds. You can find more academic coverage of these winds but the basics of fuel, oxygen and ignition apply. You increase wind you increase oxygen to the fuel. You have bone dry conditions drier than your average day in the desert and ignition becomes so easy.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE1S69-l6vQ

    7. LeeG

      I have lived near firestorms in California. There aren’t many forests in the grasslands of SoCal and other parts north where grassland wildfires have decimated towns. Human habitation introduces fuel and ignition sources in unique geography where very hot high winds accelerate small fires instantly.
      You might as well say people shouldn’t live where there is inadequate water or use non-renewable resources that cause global warming. People go where they will.
      If you have not experienced 95F bone dry gale force winds you are missing a significant factor in these fires. It’s not just about raking forests or not living in forests. A few decades ago there was a fire that came down from San Marcos Pass above Santa Barbara. No forests when this fire hit blasting through stucco suburban homes driven by hot drywinds igniting house after house where there was very little flammable vegetation around.

    8. gerryf

      I remember driving through Montecito afterwards, and the freakishness of it. Four houses burned down, but the one in the middle untouched. And similarly, a bunch of houses escaped, but one in the middle burned down.

    9. LeeG

      It’s disturbing all right. Wind conditions can change and what was just a hot wind is a hot wind with flaming tendrils a hundred yards long blasting embers into houses, cars and trashcans. That horizontal blowtorch with 50mph wind might exist just for minutes but that’s enough to ignite a string of houses and vehicles.
      People who live where it’s green through the summer and rains every few weeks have no clue. I was visiting my brother a few years back in Louisiana where his neighbor starts lecturing me about those Californians not clearing “the forests” . Regurgitating Trump’s talking points. No effing clue.

    10. THOMPSON

      I had not factored in winds that intense LEEG
      Quite serious when you think on it, how could you possibly fight a fire like that? You couldn’t backburn like we do around here.

      Here’s a fire in East London, UK https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/15/wildfire-erupts-dagenham-east-london/
      And this ” Profound concern’ as scientists say extreme heat ‘now the norm’ in UK”
      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jul/14/profound-concern-as-scientists-say-extreme-heat-now-the-norm-in-uk

      I don’t live over there but I’m amazed at how western Europe is warming, records being broken all the time now.

    11. LeeG

      Oxygen, fuel, ignition. Those dry, hot high winds really raise the stakes. One Spring worth of field grass goes from green to brown flammable grass in a few weeks. You could burn suburbs to a crisp with only the fuel in the homes, vehicles and garages once those winds happen.

      What surprised me was the conflagration of fires in LA in January of this year. That’s winter, when it rains. “fire season” is May to Oct not January.

    12. Alimbiquated

      Yeah, Californians need to move into town and bury rural power lines. The first step would be a complete ban on greenfield construction, which is long overdue.

      Farmers need to start paying for the water they waste, and the cities need to stop dumping so much fresh water into the ocean. The damage will be hard to undo, but a start would be to reintroduce beavers. The put water back into the landscape and their ponds are natural fire breaks.

  14. Doug Leighton

    Just great, that’s all we need right now.

    US TO REWRITE ITS PAST NATIONAL CLIMATE REPORTS

    “US President Donald Trump’s administration is revising past editions of the nation’s premier climate report—its latest move to undermine the scientific consensus on human-caused global warming.”

    https://phys.org/news/2025-08-rewrite-national-climate.html

    1. Ralph

      More doublethink from the ministry of truth. With most historical documents and film now digitised, and AI to do the work, Winston Smith will be out of a job.

    2. Nick G

      Who do they think they’ll fool??

      Obviously it will be grist for fossil fuel advocates (aka deniers), but the scientific community won’t be fooled for a second.

      Hoo boy.

    3. Hideaway

      Nick G, remember it’s the American people that voted for this type of rubbish in the first place..

      No matter what the scientific evidence, if people perceive their way of life diminishing, they will vote for whoever promises they can have it all, despite the environment disintergrating before their eyes..

      We are deep into overshoot and just continue to head into greater overshoot. When it’s no longer possible ot keep going with modernity, it ends.

    4. Nick G

      if people perceive their way of life diminishing

      Sure. If the oil industry tells them oil (and gas, and other FFs) is essential to modernity, voters will want to keep it around.

      Fortunately…it’s not. It used to be very, very useful, but now it’s rapidly becoming unnecessary and positively harmful.

      And, as it happens, voters are mostly in favor of doing more about climate change. This is true even though we can see the effectiveness of FF misinformation on republican voters:

      “Overall, 69% of Americans say large business and corporations are doing too little to help reduce the effects of global climate change. Six-in-ten also say state elected officials are doing too little on climate.”

      https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2024/12/09/how-americans-view-climate-change-and-policies-to-address-the-issue/

    5. JJHMAN

      But these same Americans voted, as a collective, into office after having seen who he is, how he operates and what he values. I will never understand this country.

    6. Nick G

      There are several sources of this problem.

      -Right wing corporations control rural radio and Fox News.

      -Most people just believe what their sources tell them, and go along with their friends and neighbors.

      -Many people in the South are still fighting the civil war – generations have passed along their guilt over slavery & racism and their humiliation over being defeated. This is difficult for the victors of the war to understand. These powerful emotions make southerners vulnerable to any demagogue that plays to making them feel better about themselves.

    7. Survivalist

      “people get the government they deserve”

    8. Iver

      Nick G

      How do you heat your home?

      Do you fly anywhere?

      What is your TV and Computer made from?

      Are all your clothes cotton?

    9. Nick G

      I’m not sure, but this appears to be in response to my arguing that FF can be replaced.

      How do you heat your home?
      I’ve greatly reduced my HVAC with insulation and better windows: 3 to 5 layers of glass. Lami is particularly good. Shades and awnings are very useful. All my lighting is LED: not only does it reduce power consumption, but it reduces your heat load: incandescents put out a LOT of heat.
      The remainder of heating with NG, further reduced with a heat pump. We’ll have to fully electrify eventually.

      Do you fly anywhere?
      Not at the moment. Aviation needs greater efficiency and synthetic diesel. Wind and solar will eventually generate large surpluses of power which should be used for things like that.

      What is your TV and Computer made from?
      Are you getting at plastic? That’s a long answer, but one part of it is that plastic doesn’t require burning FF, so the problems of plastic are a bit different. We probably should greatly reduce our use of it, which really wouldn’t be that hard – a lot of plastic is used for very marginal benefits.

      Are all your clothes cotton?
      Mostly. See above.
      —————————————-
      Most oil is for land transportation, which is cheaper and better with electric motors. We’ll need a bit of synthetic diesel.

      Most coal and gas is for electrical generation, which is mostly cheaper and better with renewables. We’ll need some utility scale hydrogen storage for winter backup, mostly underground where NG is stored now.
      See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage
      Look under “Underground hydrogen storage”
      Some, of course, is for heating: see discussion of HVAC above.

    10. Iver

      Nick G

      Well done for trying to reduce your pollution footprint.

      However you have just shown how difficult if not impossible to remove fossil fuels from the world. Your house is full of plastic goods and what do think happens to them at the end of their life? Everything degrades and if they are not burnt for fuel, they break down in the soil or water causing cancer.

      I think aviation is wonderful, it allows ordinary people to visit places only rich people could 100 years ago. The travel industry employs hundreds of millions directly and indirectly. People in third world countries now make a good living from tourism. As for bio fuel, the world already has millions of starving people, how many more would perish if all aviation fuel were made with bio diesel. Have you any idea how many hectares of land or algae ponds would be required to supply the entire aviation industry? Find out actual results rather than stupid headline stories.

      I think all cars should be electric and that would make a good start.

    11. Nick G

      how difficult if not impossible to remove fossil fuels from the world. Your house is full of plastic

      Well, just to be clear, petrochemicals aren’t fuels. They aren’t burnt, they’re processed into stuff. Now…is the stuff we create good for us, or disposed of safely? Very likely not. How much of current plastic use is of more than marginal value? I’m currently thinking about microplastics, and trying to buy food that’s packaged in glass, paper, etc.

      the world already has millions of starving people, how many more would perish if all aviation fuel were made with bio diesel.

      I agree. I was talking about synthetic fuel, not bio-fuel. It is fairly straightforward to use electrolytic H2 and DAC carbon to create synfuel. It’s significantly more expensive, at least until it gains economies of scale, gets manufacturing experience from scale (like PV), and gets access to cheap surplus electricity. But, it’s affordable for something like aviation. Let’s say it doubles the cost of fuel: fuel is roughly 1/3 of aviation costs, so doubling the cost of fuel only increases overall cost by one third. That might put a dent in aviation volumes, but it certainly wouldn’t be the end of the world.

    12. THOMPSON

      The Limits to Growth was such a simple little book Hideaway, an obvious truth, and there was a concerted effort to discredit it and the authors. Whenever I see such it just confirms to me the story is a good one. Like all the doctors who spoke out about Chemo therapy, they were silenced, far too much money peddling that poison to risk people questioning it. Indeed nearly everyone accepts it now as the only viable treatment for cancer yet the success rate from using it is abysmal and any so called recoveries could easily be attributed to other causes. Follow the money and it all comes out.

    13. Nick G

      Wow.

      So when reasonable people object to something flaky, the more they object the more credibility the flaky story has??

      Wow.

      A lot of people object very strongly to the idea that the earth is flat. Does that give it more credibility??

    14. Hideaway

      Apparently the last international flat earth society meeting was attended by people from around the planet.

      Thompson, I initially read LTG 50 years ago and have reread it several times. They made mistakes for sure, but not the way cornucopians see them. What they missed makes the situation much worse than their findings..

      They didn’t allow for failing ore grades of everything and the implications of this with energy use. The world has no shortages of any mineral or metal, it’s just the energy and technology required to obtain them.

      They didn’t allow for increasing efficiency from complexity/technology, nor did they understand the link between complexity/technology and increasing supplies of energy, materials and people/markets.

      Their slopes to the downside past peak, are way too gentle, because as the system declines with lower energy availability, the complexity/technology will also unwind, accelerating the decline with feedback loops. We require the current complexity/technology to do the gathering of every aspect of the modern world, materials of all types, water, food.

      200 years ago we could and did mine 20%+ grades of copper, that were smelted. We’ve used all those resources. We now mine 0.5% copper ore with the latest technology, then process it with the latest technology to produce pure copper. With 200 year old methods we could not mine any of the remaining copper resources at all. Same with every other type of gathering that’s needed to maintain modernity.

      Despite what Nick continually claims, we require fossil fuels for 100% of modernity. We don’t make and move anything without the use of fossil fuels, yet have crammed over 4 billion people into urban areas, well away from their food, water and material resources that are all massively degraded.

      It’s hard for people to comprehend, that there is no answer. We are in a predicament of our own making that started thousands of years ago, perhaps even as far back as when prior humans tamed fire. Civilization is a physical process of entropy, just like any life form, ecosystem, storm, or star. We take higher forms of materials and energy and degrade them into lower ordered forms.

      Most people will deny this and hence why we will only ever get politicians elected that promise ‘more’, when it’s clear that the future will be one of much, much less, if you survive, when the fossil fuel party is over..

    15. Nick G

      I like the joke about the flat earth society…

      And, yeah, Nick is going to object to this whole line of argument, because it’s just as silly as that joke. We don’t require FF for anything. Most of its uses can be done cheaper and better by alternatives. Some, a minority, are still less convenient and more expensive, until you account for the cost of pollution and security, but are still affordable. Overall, energy will be cheaper than with FF.

      Similarly, we go around and around in circles with this whole entropy thing: it just doesn’t apply. The earth isn’t an isolated system: it receives 130,000 terawatts continuously from the sun!

    16. THOMPSON

      You have to employ common sense with these things NICK G and not let your personal biases and emotions trigger you. Evidence the earth is round is overwhelming, evidence it’s flat is non-existent. Similarly the evidence chemo arrests or cures cancer is non-existent, so try and keep it rational ok.

      In the comments above people are bewildered about American politics and why a majority voted for a climate change denialist. Simple, they are denialists too. How did they get that way? They are ignorant people who believed a lie because it was told to them over and over and over. Of course to even believe voting changes anything “important” is a delusion in itself. The evidence is overwhelming that both political parties are employed/ do the bidding of the major banks and corporations. Voting effecting climate outcomes? That’s just pure Hopium.

    17. Nick G

      Evidence the earth is round is overwhelming

      Only if you believe science. Otherwise it’s not obvious at all. Just look at the sun: it’s perfectly obvious to common sense that the sun rotates around the earth, and the earth really looks flat. If the world is round, what prevents all the water from slipping to the side and falling off?

      to even believe voting changes anything “important” is a delusion in itself.

      Only if you’re a captive of right-wing propaganda, which wants to discourage you from doing anything at all. It’s perfectly obvious that the results of democratic presidents have been very, very different from republican.

      The very wealthy have a great deal of power, but this power is extremely fragile. It’s based on the agreement of the vast majority of the population which is not wealthy. The very wealthy have only the power we give them.

    18. THOMPSON

      HIDEAWAY: “Despite what Nick continually claims, we require fossil fuels for 100% of modernity. ”
      So you are one who understands the issue too, We’re facing a train wreck, for sure. I think the techno-cornucopian wind socks, as someone here called these dreamers, are believing in the bright green future because they are incapable of processing the reality of life without oil. Either that or they are running scared?

      Debt can only lift your lifestyle so far, and when that music stops you are forced to collapse further than you would have if you’d just lived within your means. I understand only too well why so many people are losing their homes. Cornucopians talk all positive, then one day they simply disappear? I suspect it’s because they have had a huge awakening to reality.

    19. Nick G

      “the reality of life without oil”

      Is the same as the reality of life without horses.

      Damned horseless carriages. Get a horse!
      ———————————–
      Seriously – do you think electric vehicles don’t work??

    20. Hideaway

      Nick G…..
      “Similarly, we go around and around in circles with this whole entropy thing: it just doesn’t apply. The earth isn’t an isolated system: it receives 130,000 terawatts continuously from the sun!”

      So what??
      Explain exactly how humans use any of this sunshine without using fossil fuels to make machines??

      The EROEI of the machines we make to utilize sunshine is too low to run a civilization that has the capacity to make solar panels, wind turbines and batteries, which is exactly why we use fossil fuels to make these machines and not solar panels, wind turbines and batteries.

      Humans like every other animal utilise the sunshine by eating plants that have used 1% of the energy in the sun’s rays to turn CO2 into carbohydrates, or by eating animals that have eaten plants or fungi that eat decomposing plants.

      You as a human cannot utilize the sun’s rays for anything more than a bit of (necessary) vitamin D. To survive you rely upon sun’s rays going into plants.

      The entropy is in everything us humans construct, meaning we need to mine lower and lower grade ores to make up for the entropy and dissipation of all the metals and minerals we use machines to gather. If we decided to keep an increasing proportion of the sun’s rays to do work and give off heat in the process, then over time the planet would greatly heat up.

      For life on Earth in general it’s a lot better that we can’t make enough sunshine harvesting machines to harvest the really low grades of minerals and metals to build more machines in every location that any type of ‘ore’ exists, or the planet would quickly overheat.

      It’s bad enough the gasses we’ve released into the atmosphere by burning lots of retained sunshine in buried plants and animals, so that we are already not letting the full 130,000TWh/hr escape back into space, heating the planet.

      You do understand the second law of thermodynamics that all work done by energy in a higher form is degraded into waste heat over time if not immediately don’t you??

      Are you suggesting that it’s “better” to heat the planet via holding onto more of the sun’s energy, if we could ever get our machines to become efficient enough to do so??

      I wonder if you have ever considered that solar panel lives are being shortened in the name of efficiency, with some panel makers using 1.6mm thick glass compared to the older panels that all used 3.2mm thick glass, which could withstand up to 25mm hail, yet the solar industry claim just as long a life time*, in our heating planet that is much more likely to have worse hail storms in the future……..

      *(they use ‘ice balls’ to represent hail, in testing, yet ice balls are different to hail because they do not have the sharp edges/protrusions of actual hail, so the panels pass the testing, but not actual hail).

      The stories we humans tell ourselves to feel comfortable and deny the inevitable is a sight to behold, once your eyes are opened to reality. The fairytales though will never stop as that is part of the human story through every prior civilization’s rise and collapse. This one will be no different..

    21. Nick G

      “The EROEI of the machines we make to utilize sunshine is too low to run a civilization that has the capacity to make solar panels, wind turbines and batteries, which is exactly why we use fossil fuels to make these machines and not solar panels, wind turbines and batteries.”

      Well, first let us note that we’re NOT using FF these days. Sure, we’re still using quite a lot of legacy FF electrical generation, but 90% of NEW generation is renewable. THAT’s what we’re relying upon for the future. Everyone knows it. The hard-headed Chinese know it. The engineering-proud Germans know it. Even the Saudi’s know it. This is silly.

      2nd, this argument about EROEI is about 40 years out of date. The NREL was publishing 20 years ago that EROEI of solar was 10 to 15, and that was high enough. Since then the cost of solar has dropped by 90%, and solar EROEI is no longer a hot or interesting issue – it’s just no longer a worry. I’m sorry, but it’s just a silly, fringy argument.

      Here are a few recent articles that came up on POB lately (from T Hill?):
      https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/12/7098
      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01518-6

    22. Hideaway

      Nick G … “Well, first let us note that we’re NOT using FF these days.”

      That is possibly the most absurd comment I have ever read on the peakoilbarrel pages..

      We are at record fossil fuel use. If we stopped fossil fuel use tomorrow civilization falls apart very quickly.

      Just to be clear, name a single energy gathering machine that we make without any fossil fuel involvement in it’s manufacture, because I don’t know of any…
      You do understand the question I hope, what machine do we (as in humanity as a whole) MAKE.

      Nick G …. “The NREL was publishing 20 years ago that EROEI of solar was 10 to 15, and that was high enough. Since then the cost of solar has dropped by 90%, and solar EROEI is no long a hot issue – it’s just no longer a worry. It’s just a silly, fringy argument. ”

      Every time I’ve asked you to prove any of this, not just repeat what a paper states, you never ever can. you usually go silent then promote hte same nonsense again a week or month later, depending upon how much I’ve destroyed your arguments…

      If the above was close to true, then solar would have taken over the world without any subsidies, grants, tax advantages or rule changes required. It would simply very quickly outcompete all fossil fuel use.

      Every new business setting up would go off grid to avoid grid fees and use their own cheap power to mine, process and make every widget that humanity uses and every gram of food we eat. Yet none of this is happening..

      We still build captive power plants using coal for fuel, to turn bauxite into Aluminium, as in the Indonesia example, but we don’t build captive power plants built on solar. This piece of information alone makes a mockery of the so called ‘cheaper’ solar power.

      Al the EROEI research has “boundaries” for what they include, and NEVER, NEVER count all the energy that goes into making solar, wind and batteries!! Have you ever bothered to read these papers to see the nonsense of the boundaries they include??
      It’s clearly a case of garbage in garbage out GIGO, yet you keep referring to it as if it was real..
      It doesn’t matter how many times the lie of low EROEI of solar, wind and batteries gets repeated, it’s not reality!!

      New solar installed in China has just crashed, because the huge subsidies just ended and the huge increase in May was all about getting installed before the subsidies ended. That’s the reality you continue to ignore..

      I keep telling you to stop reading nice positive articles and actuall go and do some research for yourself to find the truth, but you refuse to do so. Are you scared that what you will find destroys your delusions of the bright green future?

      Don’t be, it’s quite enlightening to know and understand the reality of the world around us and so much suddenly makes sense when you find the truth..

      Civilization is just another physical process of entropy in the universe, just like life, storms, ecosystems and stars.

    23. THOMPSON

      You’re wasting your time Hideaway, the world is full of people who don’t even know the difference between AC and DC current flow, yet a few weeks on youtube and they are experts in energy generation.

      I have read many articles on the so called “Solar break even time frame” and they are ALL based on the dollar cost of the panels, never do they look at the actual energy cost to manufacture them through all stages from mining to transport to erection on site. They are 100% subsidized by cheap fossil fuels. Take away the carbon and they wouldn’t exist.

      Simply extracting aluminium from Bauxite would be near impossible with solar given its intermittency. The electricity used is staggering! Approximately 186 gigajoules per ton, or 17 MWh/ton. How many ton do we use a year? In 2023, the global aluminum production was approximately 67 million metric tons. Coal is King.

    24. T HILL

      Hey Nick G,

      Yes, I had shared those two links to more recent work on EROI in ’22 and ’24. The analytical approach to EROI continues to improve while EROI for fossil fuels drops and EROI for renewables increases.

      Energy Return on Investment of Major Energy Carriers: Review and Harmonization
      David J. Murphy, Marco Raugei, Michael Carbajales-Dale, Brenda Rubio Estrada

      Estimation of useful-stage energy returns on investment for fossil fuels and
      Emmanuel Aramendia, Paul E. Brockway, Peter G. Taylor, Jonathan B. Norman, Matthew K. Heun & Zeke Marshall i

    25. Nick G

      T Hill,

      Thanks.

      H, T,

      This is indeed such a waste of time. It’s not as if anyone who has an open mind needs this kind of discussion to have a realistic picture. It’s just…noise.

      I do enjoy some of the information here, and some of the discussions, but this is what the ignore button is for. I knew it before, but I thought what the heck, I’ll try to engage this stuff. Just a bad idea.

      DFTT

    26. Hideaway

      Nick, I often wonder if you read or understand the papers you link to..

      For example from the Murphy paper…
      ” In general, society benefits from energy resources and technologies that are highly profitable, which provide energy to society at very little energy cost (i.e., a large proportion of net energy). On the other hand, societies that have sources of energy that have low profitability (i.e., low EROI resources) tend to be constrained in their growth potential, among other things.”

      That’s often the point I raise about how fossil fuels have been so profitable for humanity while none of the new forms of energy, nuclear, renewables and batteries go close to showing any outstanding profits..

      Your argument that ‘consumers’ make the money in renewables also is not correct as the countries with the highest rate of renewable penetration also have the highest electricity prices for consumers..
      BTW, don’t bother raising Texas as an example as they rely upon some of the cheapest gas in the world to provide around 42% of their power. It’s the cheap gas that makes power cheap there, not the renewables…

      What would it take to get you to actually do some proper research??

    27. Huntingtonbeach

      “This is indeed such a waste of time. It’s not as if anyone who has an open mind needs this kind of discussion to have a realistic picture. It’s just…noise.”

      I agree with you Nick. I find your comments refreshing from the noise. The abuse you take here stems from envy. You have an ability to process information and vision others can’t match.

      “Key characteristics of open-mindedness
      Willingness to learn:

      Open-minded individuals are eager to acquire new knowledge and understanding, according to Indeed.

      Curiosity: They display a genuine interest in exploring diverse viewpoints and discovering more about the world around them, according to Indeed.

      Empathy: Open-minded people strive to understand and appreciate the emotions and circumstances of others, even if they don’t share the same experiences or opinions.

      Humility: Recognizing that one doesn’t know everything, they are open to admitting when they are wrong and learning from mistakes.

      Objectivity: Open-mindedness involves seeking and weighing evidence fairly, even when it goes against one’s preferred beliefs.

      Non-judgmental: They avoid making snap judgments and strive to understand others’ reasoning and perspectives, according to Victoria M. from TEDxYouth.

      Why is it beneficial to be open-minded?

      Enhanced learning and growth: By embracing new information and perspectives, open-minded individuals expand their knowledge base and facilitate personal development, says Indeed.

      Improved relationships: Open-mindedness fosters empathy and understanding, making it easier to connect with people from various backgrounds and reduce conflict, according to Indeed.

      Better decision-making and problem-solving: Considering diverse viewpoints can lead to more creative solutions and more accurate assessments of situations, according to MorningCoach.

      Increased resilience and optimism: Open-mindedness can cultivate a more positive attitude towards life’s challenges and make it easier to adapt to change.

      How to cultivate open-mindedness

      Practice active listening: Pay close attention to what others are saying, ask clarifying questions, and reflect on their perspectives before responding.

      Challenge your assumptions and biases: Be aware of your existing beliefs and consciously consider alternative viewpoints, says Verywell Mind.

      Seek out diverse perspectives: Engage with people, ideas, and experiences that are different from your own, according to Indeed.

      Embrace continuous learning: Realize that there’s always more to learn and be open to expanding your knowledge and skills.

      In essence, having an open mind is a valuable asset that can enrich your life by fostering personal growth, strengthening relationships, and enabling more effective engagement with the world around you.”

      *********

      Types of People You Just Can’t Help

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWh954kN7h4

      Stay strong, DFTT

    28. Nick G

      I like that discussion, a lot.

      It is very frustrating to try to dialogue with people who don’t want to read and consider carefully. They seem to simply want to seize on anything to win the argument.

      I can only guess they’re just protecting their O&G industry.

    29. Hideaway

      It’s hilarious reading posts from someone with the most closed mind on the forum, discussing how others that don’t believe what he states as having the closed minds.

      Every EROEI research paper, that Nick has ever presented as evidence, inevitably refers back to ‘other’ papers for most if not all the statistics on EROEI. When I go and read them, they refer to other work, on so on, often back many years until you find where the numbers actually come from, with the authors highlighting the boundaries they have used.

      The boundaries are often so restrictive, that they leave out most of the energy inputs into the construction of the machines we build (solar, wind, nuclear, etc), because most of the energy is too hard to proportion.

      This research is then used as a reference by other more recent research as if it’s ‘fact’ without reference to the boundaries set, nor any mention of them. This further research is also then used in papers like murphy et al, you referred to as if it’s all real.

      As I quoted above from the Murphy paper, where even he recognises that high EROEI has to be very profitable and low EROEI is not profitable, but then goes on to discuss solar and wind as if they were highly profitable, when they are clearly not..

      It’s really funny that those who have not done the required research to find the truth, talking among themselves as if they had the high ground, but cannot explain why these so called highly profitable energy sources need constant subsidies, tax credits, rules advantaging them and even after all this give poor returns…

      One of the many reasons civilization is going to crash really hard is the failure of people to look at reality of the totality of our situation until it’s way too late. Though I’m coming rapidly to the conclusion there was never anything we could have done anyway, because of a host of reasons, of which telling ourselves fairy tales about renewables is only a small part.

      It seems being delusional keeps people happy, probably why so many religions exist..

    30. Huntingtonbeach

      “It’s not the destination, it’s the journey”

    31. Han Neumann

      “..…yet the success rate from using it is abysmal“

      THOMPSON,

      Not anymore, with even very good results in certain types of cancer

      “… any so called recoveries could easily be attributed to other causes.”

      Like after visiting Lourdes ?

    32. Nick G

      Reminds me of the joke Christian Scientists like to tell on themselves: the kittens were born blind, but we prayed for many days and their eyes opened!

    33. THOMPSON

      It’s just Hopium that makes billions for the medical industrial complex Han. You fill your body so full of toxic chemicals your hair falls out and you’re sick all the time? Then some cancer cells die… But the patient typically dies in 2 to 5 years anyway.

      There are very effective natural treatments for cancer but they are demonized because the medical industrial complex, the second largest corporation block after the military industrial complex, doesn’t like competition.
      This is from the medical industry themselves. They are walking in the dark.
      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10992618/
      And the side effects!
      https://www.cancervic.org.au/cancer-information/treatments/treatments-types/chemotherapy/side_effects_of_chemotherapy.html
      As for the mega profits from the Military complex, just look at the endless wars raging. profits must be maintained Han, do you believe what the TV told you about freedom and democracy? WMD and all that? Endless wars, endless profits, Endless diseases and endless profits. The best thing a person can do for their health is throw the TV in the dumpster and avoid the supermarket. They mostly only sell processed rubbish anyway, much better to shop at fresh food only stores like butchers and bakeries, grocers and the like. that way you won’t come home with bags of soda and chips, chocolate and tinned food and ice cream and processed meats full of chemicals.

    34. Nick G

      “Chemotherapy is a well-known and effective treatment for different cancers; unfortunately, it has not been as efficient in the eradication of all cancer cells as been expected.”
      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10992618/

      Effective, but not as efficient as expected. They’re not saying it’s a bad thing. They just want to improve it.

    35. Han Neumann

      THOMPSON,

      I don’t have to read the articles about side-effects, etc of chemotherapy. I’m a pharmacist but without ‘promoting’ the use of medicines. The less the better.
      Side effects are the sign that a drug is working. There are not many drugs without side effects; paracetamol one of the few most times without.
      Yes, chemotherapy is intense. That’s inherent to the way they are active. The cure percentage of many cancers is still increasing (starting decades ago). Various types of leukemia are almost 100% curable. And they are developing drugs that leave the healthy cells alone. At least one already exists: 5-fluoruracil. Used for certain types of skincancer (BCC and SCC) in stage 1. Drugs that stimulate the immune system (to attack cancer cells) are developed or are in development.
      Alternative treatments are generally ‘misleading of people’, a hoax. Can be dangerous if the advice is not given to visit a professional. One alternative treatment is megadoses of vitamin C. There is no evidence that it works better than a placebo.
      Nick G already wrote an appropriate comment

    36. THOMPSON

      25 odd years ago I was in a chiropractor’s rooms getting a back adjustment, among the pile of magazines was a Readers Digest. I looked at a couple of stories then my turn came. Afterwards I mentioned the mag and the chiro said that the Readers Digest was owned by a pharmaceutical company. I checked that and it was true.

      There always 3 main stories in the Digest back in those days. Two where Dr. Darling saves some young child or woman from a debilitating fate, he can do no wrong, and one on things like Vitamins or the like. While the Dr. stories were unmitigated successes the Stories on alternate methods were always couched in a little suspicion, typically ending in the “No credible studies prove” line. As to be expected since the medical industrial block controled all those labs directly or the Universities indirectly through the grants they provide.

      But the Vitamin industry got away from them, people actually believed that consuming 1000mg of ascorbic acid a day was healthy for them even though the little pills contained no associated living enzymes such as found in an orange or lemon, but that’s a story for another day. Disturbed by this trend in Health that the corporations had no control over they proceeded to buy out all the major producers. And that is why vitamin pills got so expensive.
      https://drnealsmoller.com/rant/the-14-mega-corporations-that-own-your-supplement-brand/
      People would be quite surprised to know just what these faceless corporations actually own. There is a reason why Americans are the sickest people on the planet, riddled with disease. Healthy people don’t generate profits. Treatments do.

    37. Nick G

      “ the Readers Digest was owned by a pharmaceutical company.”

      Where did this information come from? I don’t see any indication that it’s true.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reader's_Digest

    38. Nick G

      “ There is a reason why Americans are the sickest people on the planet”

      Yes, it’s because food has become too cheap, too easy to find (let’s pull into this drive-in), too easy prepare (open the bag), too easy to eat (look ma, no chewing!), and too tasty (thank those food chemists). Ultra-processed food has an EROEI that is way too high -humans aren’t made for such easy food. They’re made to survive famine, and they eat way too much.

      Obesity is killing Americans.

    39. Han Neumann

      “…..people actually believed that consuming 1000mg of ascorbic acid a day was healthy for them even though the little pills contained no associated living enzymes such as found in an orange or lemon,…”

      Nutrition is not about enzymes (catalysts of chemical reactions), which are not living by the way, but in addition about the combined action of vitamins + antioxidants that protect cells from damage. Vitamin C is in itself an antioxidant too. To take about 250mg a day extra is maybe not a bad idea, unless eating much vitamin C containing fruits and vegetables each day. I read that on ‘Peak Performance Sports’ many years ago. Very high doses of vitamin C can be counterproductive (acting as an oxidant)

    40. Nick G

      “they are developing drugs that leave the healthy cells alone.”

      What do you think of Enhertu? I have someone close who’s on it for metastatic breast cancer – she seems to be doing well. My understanding is that it targets cancer cells more than most chemo.

      What do you think of it?

    41. Han Neumann

      “ What do you think of Enhertu? “

      Nick,

      It slows down significantly disease progression. Significantly, otherwise the FDA wouldn’t have approved it.

      https://www.fda.gov/drugs/resources-information-approved-drugs/fda-approves-fam-trastuzumab-deruxtecan-nxki-unresectable-or-metastatic-hr-positive-her2-low-or-her2

      ‘On January 27, 2025, the Food and Drug Administration approved fam-trastuzumab deruxtecan-nxki (Enhertu, Daiichi Sankyo, Inc.) for unresectable or metastatic hormone receptor (HR)-positive, HER2-low (IHC 1+ or IHC 2+/ISH-) or HER2-ultralow (IHC 0 with membrane staining) breast cancer, as determined by an FDA-approved test…’

    42. THOMPSON

      I wish I had a dime for every time I heard someone throw ‘that’ thought stopper out. Stop thinking in memes ffs.

  15. Doug Leighton

    Anyone surprised?

    ‘ERASURE OF YEARS OF WORK’: OUTCRY AS WHITE HOUSE MOVES TO OPEN ARCTIC RESERVE TO OIL AND GAS DRILLING

    “The Trump administration’s plan to expand oil and gas drilling in a 23m acre reserve on the Arctic Ocean is sparking an impassioned response, amid fears it threatens Arctic wildlife, undermines the subsistence rights of Alaska Natives and imperils one of the fastest-warming ecosystems on Earth…

    The BLM rollback is part of a broad, rapid-fire regulatory push to industrialize the Alaskan Arctic, particularly the NPR-A. Weeks after proposing to strip protections from the reserve, the Department of Interior signaled it would adopt a management plan that would open 82% of the NPR-A to oil drilling. Two weeks ago, before the public comment period had ended, the BLM rescinded three other Biden-era documents protecting the reserve.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/09/national-petroleum-reserve-alaska-oil-gas-drilling

    1. THOMPSON

      Well it’s either that or buy oil of Putin and the axis of Evil. Trouble is those major oil producers don’t want anymore $US bonds, they are divesting themselves of them in fact and stockpiling Gold. I would assume that in the years ahead the BRICS block will come out with a Gold backed system. That’s why there is all this chatter about the US revaluing it’s Gold stockpile.

  16. THOMPSON

    Gold, it’s up 3% for the month, 12.5% for 6mths, 42% for the year and, 800% over the last 20 years, in my local currency.
    800/20 years = 40% appreciation per year. It’s been the trade of the century, super secure, super liquid, yet 99% of the people in the western world ignored it. Why?
    Because they were “told” to ignore it, by Greenspan firstly and then every other mainstream investment adviser on the TV set and in the papers and on the web. Hahaha.

    Nearly everyone was played, directed into volatile stock indexes and then crypto tokens. Funny thing is, people are still negative about it, such is the power of propaganda on the human mind that they can’t even see their hand in front of their face.

  17. Doug Leighton

    Among other issues we are facing.

    THE U.S. DEBT OUTLOOK IS SO DIRE IT NOW RESEMBLES THE STUDENT LOAN CRISIS

    “The U.S. already pays more in interest on its debt than it spends on Medicare and defense. Those interest payments will hit $1 trillion next year, trailing only Social Security as the government’s biggest outlay, according to the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a think tank. Meanwhile, Trump’s tax cuts and spending are expected to add trillions to the deficit in the coming years, with the total debt-to-GDP ratio surpassing the post-Word War II record soon.”

    1. Nick G

      hmm. Another person I have given up talking to in the past, but what the heck, I’m so curious:

      Doug,

      Why do you put so much energy into finding negative articles? I would think you were trying to galvanize people into action except that you get quite angry at anyone who suggests solutions like renewables and EVs.

      So. Are you depressed, and looking desperately for reassurance, and pushing away the reassurance because hope is too painful?

      Or, are you just trying to discourage people from being climate activists, to protect your and your daughter’s career in the oil & gas industry?

    2. Survivalist

      Wait ’til you hear about the famine.

    3. Nick G

      Well, sure, gotta have famine. But what about the other three Horsemen?

  18. hightrekker

    “We know that Republicans were happy to vote for a convicted felon, sexual abuser and proven fraudster for president. Would they stick with him for pedophilia? Yeah, most of them would or would at least consider it:”

    yep

    1. THOMPSON

      Trump told reporters that he is officially invoking the D.C. Home Rule Act to place the Metropolitan Police Department under direct federal control and deploy the National Guard, stating, “This is Liberation Day in D.C. — and we’re going to take our capital BACK.” —

      I met a traveller from an antique land,
      Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
      Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
      Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
      And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
      Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
      Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
      The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
      And on the pedestal, these words appear:
      My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
      Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
      Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
      Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
      The lone and level sands stretch far away.

  19. THOMPSON

    — UK Homelessness Minister Quits After Making Her Own Tenants Homeless —
    “she removed tenants from her east London townhouse and relisted the property with a £700-per-month rent increase.” https://rmx.news/article/uk-homelessness-minister-quits-after-making-her-own-tenants-homeless/

    This sums up politics and politicians in general. They are all thieves and Liars, why vote for any of them, it just prolongs the farce in your own head. Someone will say “Well if we all didn’t vote for them then the system wouldn’t work.” Well I am not “we all”, and neither are you. Let the brain-dead vote for them, there is no shortage of those types.

    1. Nick G

      This is just right wing propaganda, trying to demoralize people.

    2. THOMPSON

      Actually, it’s a proven fact, and that’s why the woman stepped down from her job, admitting her hypocrisy.
      Do you see how politics muddles your thinking processes? Black becomes White, up becomes Down and Truth becomes Propaganda.

  20. THOMPSON

    Food Prices, it’s gone viral. Just start @ 4:50
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMpd8zq8ey8
    Food and housing costs, it’s the great impoverishment.

    1. JJHMAN

      Thompson:
      I think the great impoverishment has been slowly building since the 1960s. Virtually all of the increase in real GDP has gone to investors and managers, not to workers and not to investment in needed industries. Unions have shrunk to the only place they shouldn’t be; civil service. The only growth in oil production world-wide is in the barely profitable frac industry and with enlightened leadership (ha!) it would take the world 20 years to learn to thrive without it. Resources deplete and population continues to grow in the least habitable places on the planet. Migration anyone? People are so discouraged by the failure of the American dream they have accepted as leader a moron with simple answers to the most complex problems civilization has ever faced.
      Lucky me, I’m 81 but I worry about my children’s future.

    2. THOMPSON

      You summed it up JJHMAN, better than I could. Population is definitely the variable in the equation pushing people into poverty. In those videos the people are just complaining, they are helpless! Looking for someone to blame, and as always they’ll blame the bosses and greedy shareholders, never once considering the fact that if they were in their shoes, they’d do exactly the same.

      It’s a global auction, upwardly mobile Chinese and Indians etc bidding for the food, and it will go to the highest bidder. Has fertilizer and pesticide manufacturing kept up with population growth so the world can produce equivalent amounts? And what of the increased heat and fires and floods devastating crops? And the limited arable land?

      Everyone is simply reacting, complaining, and that in no way helps them. They take extra jobs on, chasing money, the system approach, but none of them consider changing their lifestyles or eating habits or where they buy, at least not outside the corporate supermarket chains. How much CC debt is sucking away at their finances? How much did they pay for that new phone to shoot the video with? The personal solution is to be proactive not reactive, and that is their only solution because the National system isn’t going to change just because they are hungry and want change. If they had taken on board the message of Peak Oil two decades ago they might be in a much better place now. They might have curtailed their consumption, “collapsed before the rush” as one author penned back in the mid 00’s. Now the rush is obviously here but can they change their lifestyles to good effect? From my personal experience it takes years to sort through all this and get on a sustainable path.

      Peak oil has been slandered for decades now but as a concept it sums all these problems up. Less energy and industrial inputs per capita = a collapse in 20th century lifestyle for many. I’m 20 years younger than you but unconcerned about the future as well. I made my bed on the advice of several wise authors about where to live and where to invest and how to set up my home etc. Plus I don’t live in the U.S. I won’t say where though, that typically just causes angst among the predominantly American posters 🙂

    3. Iver

      You are unconcerned about the future, really?

      Perhaps you own a mixed arable and livestock farm with a very reliable water source and have several savage dogs and guns to protect your livestock from thieves.

      The rest of us who actually know what is going on and have to buy food, know things will get very bad.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IApgVBr4YzU

      Pakistan is on the brink, it trades food for oil and gas, very soon it will have to cut irrigation in order to ensure people have water to drink. Even that may not be enough. What happens to a country of 250 million with no gas, oil, electricity and hardly any water?

      Iran is in a similar dire situation, Iraq not much better and Europe already facing an immigration crisis and water scarcity.

      https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-40-of-europe-slides-into-drought-including-pockets-of-greece-southern-italy-and-spain-13376787

      I see food prices doubling in the next couple of years. Many in Europe are already unable to heat their homes with food costs as they are. Shop lifting has become so endemic that police don’t even come to the shops any more to even pretend to look for the criminals.

      The world is entirely interlinked, particularly in food vast amounts of food is traded. If food is exported from a country with a hungry population you will get revolution. It has happened many times before.

    4. THOMPSON

      IVER– You are unconcerned about the future, really?
      Perhaps you own a mixed arable and livestock farm with a very reliable water source and have several savage dogs and guns to protect your livestock from thieves.

      No IVER, I’m not in the least concerned, and I don’t have a farm, though I did once own the 100 acre doomstead. You are referring to the myth of food security owning a farm, there are a lot of myths out there in the preparedness world and one of the most enduring ones is that the only way someone will survive in the future is to become a farmer. A quick look at recent or distant history though proves this is a fallacy. Farms and farmers are the first to go under the hatchet. Zimbabwe and South Africa after the onset of black rule , China in the revolution, the USSR under collectivization, and today, places like Haiti, where Gangs are Ravaging the Country’s Central Region, driving off the farmers.

      — The region—known as Haiti’s rice basket—has been under attack in recent years, with gangs killing farmers or forcing them to abandon their fields as they raze nearby communities. Gang violence also has displaced more than 239,000 people in Haiti’s central region, according to the U.N.– https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/haiti-declares-3-month-state-of-emergency-as-gangs-ravage-countrys-central-region-5899320

      Farms are a natural target for hungry people. You want to be near them to guarantee your own food supply, sure, but not on one! Do some research IVER, you’ll find a better way, I did after years of wading through the endless misinformation out there promulgated by the prep-o-sphere. Besides, like I said, I don’t live in the U.S. We don’t face the same dynamics of corruption, illegal immigration, and the BLM violence. I did a lot of research and the town I chose to live in has never had a murder, not in all it’s history and thousands live here. I remember the prepper types in 2004 singing the same farmyard song as today, they were all laughing at “pet rocks” too, I didn’t listen to that collective delusion either.

    5. Iver

      Haiti state has disintegrated I was thinking about Europe

  21. Seppo Korpela

    I wonder if this has been posted before.

    https://www.breakthroughjournal.org/p/why-i-stopped-being-a-climate-catastrophist?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2392380&post_id=170656741&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=7y8i9&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

    1. T HILL

      No, I haven’t seen it yet.

      Completely unimpressed with it though. While I would expect a history major to be wrong and/or misleading on the science, I would have at least expected him to be able to spell James Hansen correctly when making a reference.

    2. James Charles

      Climate has changed before?
      “ . . . it is these ocean state changes that are
      1:02:28 correlated with the great disasters of the past impact can cause extinction but
      1:02:35 it did so in our past only wants[once] that we can tell whereas this has happened over
      1:02:40 and over and over again we have fifteen evidences times of mass extinction in the past 500 million years
      1:02:48 so the implications for the implications the implications of the carbon dioxide is really dangerous if you heat your
      1:02:55 planet sufficiently to cause your Arctic to melt if you cause the temperature
      1:03:01 gradient between your tropics and your Arctic to be reduced you risk going back
      1:03:07 to a state that produces these hydrogen sulfide pulses . . . “?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ako03Bjxv70

  22. Ovi

    A new Open Thread Non-Petroleum has been posted.

    https://peakoilbarrel.com/open-thread-non-petroleum-august-13-2025/

    An update to April World and Non-OPEC Oil production has been posted.

    https://peakoilbarrel.com/april-world-and-non-opec-oil-production-drops/

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