136 thoughts to “Open Thread Non-Petroleum August 21, 2020”

    1. Short, but to the point-
      “Trump’s desperate maneuvers reflect his severe and malignant psychopathology. He cares about no one but himself. Even then, he is so self-sabotaging and self-destructive that he seems to tarnish and destroy everyone and everything in his path, including himself.
      The next 11 weeks will be unsettling and scary for all of us. That is not presidential leadership; that is psychiatric disturbance breathing unrest and disarray into our daily lives.”

      I find it so damn bizarre, that so many americans applaud this behavior, and choose it for their leader.
      Its like pretending the wrestling crap on tv (?www) is real.
      Really does not show any respect for the country, or those who worked and fought so hard to make it.

      “Trump retweets Russian propaganda about Biden that US intel agencies say is intended to influence 2020 election”…. the Senate Intelligence Committee, responded to Trump’s retweet by calling out the President for amplifying Russian disinformation…President has “irrevocably shown his true colors yet again” by retweeting Russian propaganda.

      Brilliant.

        1. True. That might be a valuable realization for a reality TV show, but it is a tragic march into state of decline for a country.

          1. You should prob get used to that lol

            “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
            ~ H. L. Mencken, writing for the Baltimore Evening Sun, 26 July 1920

  2. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-16/oil-companies-wonder-if-it-s-worth-looking-for-oil-anymore?utm_source=pocket-newtab

    Personally I think the oil industry still has at least another decade or two of good times ahead assuming the world wide economy gets its footing back. It will take that long for all the legacy machinery that’s already built and will be built to be displaced to a sufficient extent by electrification to offset depletion of legacy fields.

  3. I just finished reading The Alchemy of Air: A Jewish Genius, a Doomed Tycoon, and the Scientific Discovery That Fed the World but Fueled the Rise of Hitler. It is the story of Haver-Bosch discovery and development. Half the world’s population is alive today because of the Haber-Bosch process. Anyway the story, though non-fiction, reads like a spy thriller. I simply could not put it down.

    But now I need something else to read so I just ordered: Hoax: Donald Trump, Fox News, and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth. Trump gets most of his opinions from the talking heads on Fox News. That is where he got his opinion that the coronavirus was nothing to worry about and would disappear as soon as the weather got warm. Looking forward to it.

    1. The title is BS. There is no real connection between the ammonia synthesis and Hitler.

      Without the ammonia synthesis the first world war would have been shorter, but still a situation would have been produced for the rise of extremism in middle Europe.

      1) We have the ammonia synthesis (, it is by the way the Haber-Bosch process).

      2) We have a second process, the Ostwald process, in which ammonia is oxidized to NO, without this process nitrates are not possible in large scale.

      3) The driving force for both processes was not military demand.

      1. Ulenspiegel, I know you are German but you obviously have not read this book and do not have a good grip on the history of the Haber-Bosch process. You are simply trying to judge a book by its cover. The book fully covers every step of the Ostwald process. There was a lawsuit and Ostwald completely supported Haber and his discovery. The suit was then dropped. They are two entirely different processes.

        Manufacturing Nitrates: the Ostwald process

        Once ammonia has been produced by the Haber process, it can be converted into nitric acid through a multi-step procedure known as the Ostwald process.

        And you are horribly mistaken concerning the Haber-Bosch and Hitler. The process produces explosives. But Carl Bosch also produced synthetic gasoline, from coal, at their largest plant, Leuna.

        From the book, bold mine: They named it “Flak Hell Leuna,” and the nearby town of Merseburg “Miseryberg.” They had a greater chance of getting shot down over Leuna than anywhere else in the war. But they were ordered to attack again and again through the summer and fall of 1944, because it was becoming clear that Leuna was key to victory. (page 265-266)

        Nothing in the title even suggest that the driving force for the process was military demand, though the drive for artificial saltpeter was a huge part of the early drive for the process. The drive was both to feed the world and to make gunpowder. It succeeded in doing both.

        Hey, all you have to do is google it. The Germans Created Gunpowder & Food From Thin Air

        Saltpeter is a nitrate. According to the International Encyclopedia of the First World War, most of the world’s naturally occurring nitrates came from Chile during this time period in the form of saltpeter. Chile would export 3 million tons of nitrates at peak levels during the war. These supplies would be cut off from Germany as the war began.

        Also it was Carl Bosch’s drive that created synthetic gasoline from coal that is hinted to in the title. Without Carl Bosch, there would have been no synthetic gasoline and the war would likely have been over two years earlier.

        As a German, it is rather surprising that you were not aware of the importance of the Haber-Bosch processes role in producing explosives for Germany during WW2. And Bosch’s role in creating the process and producing synthetic gasoline to fuel the war effort.

        1. Look, as chemist I know that the Haber-Bosch and the Ostwals process are two different processes. But you need BOTH to produce nitrates. One could actually make the point that Ostwald was as important than Haber Bosch.

          The point is that these processes allowed Germany to fight after 1915 the FIRST world war, whether a lost first world war in 1916 would have changed the sitution in respect to Hitler is at least debatable.

          To assume that all the fuel production in WWII is essentially connected to Bosch is again debatable, he was a figure head, not the only one in the field. It is BTW Fischer-Tropsch process or Bergius-Pier process that comes to mind when talking about synfuel. Hard science is much less than music or literature dependent on individuals. The trick Bosch used in the reactors of the ammonia synthesis was in principle used in other fields like gun making too, provide different aspects with different layers of the “reactor”. 🙂

          You have to get a feeling why there was a drive before WWI without any military pressure (!) to bring the two lab bench processes to the industrial scale until 1914. And for synfuel and synthetic rubber, where Hofmann was leading, the first world war provided the initial boost in lab.

          1. To assume that all the fuel production in WWII is essentially connected to Bosch is again debatable, he was a figure head, not the only one in the field.

            Nope! Bosch was the driving synfuel force. Leuna was entirely his baby. Yes, he had a team of engineers but he was their driving force.

            You are trying to criticize a book you have never read. I fully understand that you believe, being German yourself, that you know more about the subject than the author, Thomas Hager. But Hager did his research. He lists every engineer by name and gives their input to the process.

            If you do not have time to read the history then go to the 25 minute mark of this YouTube video and get the story of Bosch and synthetic fuel.

            Thomas_Hager_Alchemy_Of_Air

            A commenter wrote: Thomas Hager Review of his book, The Alchemy of Air. Don’t let the title fool you. The subject of the book should have been taught to every American child in the 6th grade. It is important to an understanding of modern history.

            It’s all about history and Hager did his homework. History is very often something people get wrong. They form opinions based on their ideology. It’s a lot easier than actually going to the trouble of actually studying history.

            Note: This book does not favor any ideology or favor any nation. It is just history. It tells it like it is… or rather like it was. End of story.

          2. Even if you are a German (as my sister-in law and niece and nephews are) no intelligent person reviews a book without reading it. Please sit down and buy the book.

  5. Continued from here…

    “…and your implication is that people chose 2020 to be the year of the pandemic…” ~ GerryF

    No, I’m just suggesting that as among possibilities that we may not necessarily wish to discount outright in the inputs to our mental models of what may be going on.

    The UN suggested, in 2018 if recalled, that we have 12 years left to get emissions down to a particular level. Why 12 in 2018? That hits a nice round 10 by the nice round year of 2020 (and then of course to a ‘pleasing’ 2030).

    Why should climate, like a virus, care about any of that? They don’t of course, but humans can and do.

    So we have a global pandemic declared as one in 2020 of a very questionable virus (and/or its sociopolitical surrounds) appearing almost as if by decree. From a ‘wet market’ in the same town as a virus research lab. In the country of a government that doesn’t want to look into a certain matter regarding that. Etcetera.

    There is the question of ‘Why would a government risk infecting themselves/their population in something like a deliberate release of a virus like COVID-19? It just doesn’t make much sense.’.
    Doesn’t it? Perhaps. But we’re again not dealing with climate or a virus, but people, and some who might feel increasingly desperate.

    ‘Desperate times call for desperate measures’.

    We are dealing with increasing shortfalls in energy and geopolitical, social, economic, climate and ecosystem stability.

    See also here.

    Why It’s Misleading To Say We Only Have 12 Years To Avert Dangerous Climate Change

    ” ‘We have 12 years to limit climate change catastrophe’. ‘Planet has only until 2030 to stem catastrophic climate change’. ‘We have 12 years to act on climate change before the world as we know it is lost’. ‘The world has just over a decade to get climate change under control’.

    So say the headlines today. They are certainly correct to emphasise that climate change is an extreme threat to our civilisation and that we need to take urgent action. But the claim that there are 12 years until the point of no return is at best questionable, and at worst actively confusing. The reality is that there is no such cut-off: just a problem that gets worse and worse the later we leave it…

    The point is that the climate is not so simple as to give us a neat cutoff date for action.”

    1. ‘It’s 2020 and we now have only 12 10 more years to limit climate change catastrophe, so 2030′

      😀

      New normals here we come!

      “Caelen said: ‘Why should COVID-19 land on such a round year number as 2020?’

      That is indeed the most intellectually vapid comment I have seen this side of the numerology blogs.” ~ Paul Pukite (@whut)

      I can’t look and see for you, Paul, but if you want, I can look in the other direction and when I do, take a quick peek and I’ll pretend I didn’t notice.

  6. How many people die each day?

    The unedited visualization is at that link above.

    Some takeaways:

    • COVID-19 deaths are roughly the same as that other global pandemic everyone’s freaking out about; suicide.
    • Road injuries are a fair bit higher. Who drives?
    • Cardiovascular and respiratory diseases are among the largest causes: It seems rather trivial to plug COVID-19 into them for some street cred as but one of a myriad of causes. Hey why not? Join the party.
    • The COVID-19 death-ball seems to be shrinking over time, unlike most or all of the other causes. I wonder what size it will shrink to.

    1. What nonsensical arguments, some are even pure BS. Try to understand the concept of excess mortality.

      1. Excess Mortality?

        How do you mean?
        Do you mean the way the legacy mainstream media frame COVID-19?
        The excess mortality of a new kid on the block compared with the older, more established ones living on their plateaus? Hardly seems fair in a way does it?

        Or do you mean ‘excess morality’ in this sense?

        Are you in Germany incidentally? I sometimes come across info from there about how angry some people are about its government’s over-responses (draconian?) to COVID-19. I seem to recall even posting something on here regarding the government being taken to their own court for it.

        Over here (Nova Scotia), as of Aug 1, the governpimp ‘mandates’ masks (unless you have a medical-related reason for not being able to wear one) on buses and in retail (including grocery) stores, but not in pubs (the staff yes, but not the customers unless, as someone told me, it’s to go to use the washroom. Unsure how/if that works or looks like so I’ll have to grab a drink and see and maybe catch COVID-19 and die OMG.).

        So I guess the ones in the pubs supposedly infect each other and then take it on the road.

      2. Caelan, what’s your educational background? Do you have any formal training?

        .

        1. Gerry, you are very patient. I blocked Caelan years ago, Doug Leighton more recently. Makes for a thin thread in this case though!

          1. Mental Health Contradictions

            One will notice that, ironically, Norris’ first and only comment at time of writing targets someone they claim they have blocked.

            Then there’s also this little ditty:

            “NAOM, I’ve blocked Doug, GF, Caelan and Tim E. That helps. Arguably not ideal, should be open to rational discussion etc, but my mental health comes first!” ~ John Norris

            Mental health, ay?
            Unsurprising though, given this sort of culture that appears in serious decline– mentally and otherwise.

            Aside from zeroing in on people they have apparently blocked, if recalled correctly (since it’s of little importance except to what’s left of the readership here, and even then…), if one considers the rest of Norris’ comments hereon, they may continue to find next-to-nothing.

        2. What’s your notion(s)/value(s) of ‘educational background/formal training’?

          “Gerry, you are very patient.” ~ John Norris

          So is Caelan, especially these days.

          1. Caelan, I asked about your background simply because I’m curious what formal education you have? You can write, but from your content I sense you don’t have a science background. So i just wondered where were you educated and what you studied?

            Also, when John Norris has you blocked, every time you post, your name appears in the thread as normal, but without any content. So he would know that you’re posting, without knowing what you’re posting.

            1. GerryF, if you want to discuss, on its own merits, the content of my previous comment on COVID-19, or whatever else for that matter, from your own ‘formal science/whatever educational background’, feel free and we’ll see where that goes, assuming we have the time or inclination.

              I wouldn’t get too cooked/stuck up, incidentally, about science or any other ‘formal educational background’, given that we have in large part too many coming out of them selling themselves out to the crony-capitalist plutarchy and ongoing destruction of the planet.

              As for your explanation on Norris’ behalf: (rolls eyes).

              That writ, I’ll leave you with a piece of graffiti wisdom that I once read at a bus stop:

              “You are not your job.”

              New Jerusalem

              “Another twat in the Number 10 flat
              Dancing to the tune of Goldman Sachs
              Another knob got the top job
              Selling out to corporations…”

            2. Caelan,

              You’ve misinterpreted. It doesn’t matter to me what your job is. Me and many of the people i work with have jobs unrelated to their formal education and training.

              Many of your posts express a variety of opinions on a number of different matters. Some of them are a consistent theme, but others aren’t.

              Formal education and training often affects how you view the world, (if you do it long enough I suppose), and i was just curious where you were coming from.

            3. I added the job thing for flourish, GerryF.

              I also noticed that you haven’t (nor anyone else) touched/challenged my initial comment about COVID-19 under Ulenspiegel’s where yours appeared and where you planted your focus onto my background with some unsupported claims (about ‘consistent themes’) no less.

              That and your previous ‘classy guy’ apparently-sarcastic swipe makes me wonder if you dabble in ad hominems too.

              Formal education and training– whatever those mean exactly– affect how one views the world, but they don’t necessarily always have to affect it well, hence my point about that.

              Similarly, informal or autodidactic education and the like as well as simple experience does the same thing and can be more effective and less destructive.

              Lastly, I’d like to remind you what we were doing as a species before the green and industrial revolutions. AFAIK, we were all essentially doing the same things; small-scale local farming and hunting and gathering, etc..

              Those were components of our education, knowledge, skills, experience and self empowerment that many of us have lost to the ‘dystem’, so self-domesticated as we are.

            4. Caelan,

              I don’t think there’s anything wrong with non-formal education. Many leading thinkers and scientists were self-educated. You’re right that it can be more effective, but it can also be less effective if you don’t also educate yourself on induction and hypothesis-testing, and develop a skill in evaluating and reconciling experiment and theory. As you probably know, these aren’t simple skills.

              I haven’t responded to your speculations about Covid-19 because they aren’t supported by evidence. There is evidence to the contrary.

              It seems like every second day there’s another implausible Covid-19 theory being bandied about, with no evidence. We know from Brandolini’s Principle that it’s not time-effective to respond to them.

              Good luck!

            5. Toxic Privilege, Structural Inequity and Social Decay

              You mean like, for example, along the lines of a possible pattern that could form a hypothesis about someone who might, to paraphrase, write ‘haha’ when we might tell them that we’re not such-and-such a ‘specialist’ and who later invokes the word ‘classy’ to derogatorily snipe someone, and so on?

              Your comments seem to support my points/concerns about the dangers of some forms of formal education at least on some people/minds (that complex societies, alas, can depend on) and how they can collectively make a mockery of complex human society and even the living world.

              Certain questionable underlying attitudes in the wrong hands can lead to dangerous forms of corruption such as when coupled with high-level social-dependency specialization and/or power.

              Kind of like giving a chimp a loaded gun, a badge and authority.

              The sources for the death stats above are, according to that reference, the European CDC and the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.

              If you have a problem with their ‘speculations’, ‘evidence’ or whatever, feel free to contact and attempt to educate/impress them too with some vague, nonspecific shlock to that effect.

              Indeed, good shlock, er, luck.

              “With all due respect. I think a little humility is in order.” ~ SW

              “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” ~ W.C. Fields

  7. Saudi Arabia’s Crude Oil Exports Dip To Record Low In June

    The world’s top oil exporter, Saudi Arabia, saw its crude oil exports in June drop to their lowest on record at just below 5 million barrels per day (bpd), as OPEC’s de facto leader led efforts from the OPEC+ group to withhold a record amount of crude from the market in response to the crash in demand.

  8. There are those among us who would praise Australia for its progress on renewable energy well ignoring the following. To quote: “Interesting things happening in Australia. It is the coming around to the end of their “winter” season and records are being broken for the amount of electricity coming from renewable sources.” Some might call it the rose-colored glasses syndrome. ?

    PASSING THE POLLUTION: AUSTRALIA BECOMES WORLD’S BIGGEST EXPORTER OF COAL AND GAS

    “Emissions from nations which bought Australia’s gas, coal and oil increased by 4.4 per cent between 2018 and 2019, with Australia now the world’s biggest coal and gas producing country.”

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/07/09/australia-export-fossil-fuels/

    1. If there was going to be a carbon tax, would it be tallied at the site of production (Australia), or consumption?
      About 75% of Australian coal gets exported, with China, India, S Korea and Japan being the largest importers.
      I would argue for an international carbon tax to be imposed at both ends of the chain.
      The carbon tax rate would qualify for a lower rate if the particular country used the revenue for the direct deployment of solar and wind energy production facilities.

      1. Meanwhile, we have Gorgon, not that mythical creature portrayed in ancient Greek literature but the largest single-resource development in Australia’s history: “With total daily production averaging 2.3 billion cubic feet of natural gas and 6,000 barrels of condensate in 2019, the Gorgon Project will continue to be an important pillar of the Australian economy for decades to come. Unlocking this energy puts Australia in a prime position to meet future demand and provide a clean-burning fuel, both at home and overseas.”

        https://www.chevron.com/projects/gorgon

      2. From an economics point of view it doesn’t matter which end pays the carbon tax: it will affect producers and consumers the same way. From an administrative point of view it would be best to impose it at both ends, to reduce the rate at the points of imposition: this would reduce smuggling, avoidance, corruption and so on.

        China is using coal as a petrochemical feedstock. In theory this would not need to be taxed, as plastic etc isn’t necessarily burned. The fact that fossil fuels may be used in different ways that have different levels of harm might argue for a tax at the point of consumption.

        1. For any of the number crunchers here,

          Which web sites or organizations do you think of as having the best or most authoritative estimates of future growth in the wind and solar industries?

            1. Thanks Doug,

              Historical data is easy to find. What I’m hoping for is your opinion as to who has the most credibility in respect to forecasting the future growth rate of the renewable energy industries.

              It’s obvious that if the overall economy is growing at say two percent, and renewables grow at eight, renewables will displace fossil fuels at an easily estimated rate and come to dominate in a predictable number of years.

              Of course such forecasting is nothing more than educated guesswork, if you extrapolate very far into the future.

              Severe disruptions in both the overall economy and the renewables industry are not only possible but also in my own opinion more likely than otherwise.

              I’m probably way to optimistic due to wishful thinking, but if renewables continue to get cheaper year after year, I’m fairly well convinced that the Mighty Mighty Market’s Invincible Invisible Hand will force the end of the fossil fuel age a lot sooner than most people would ever guess.

              Our current industrial civilization is a very leaky old ship far out in a stormy sea, and it may well sink. But maybe the renewables lifeboats will allow a substantial number of us to make port safely.

      3. Australia, with a poplulation around 20 million, Coal to Liquids for transportation fuel.

        USA Australia Canada New Zealand – ~40% of worlds coal reserves

  9. Maybe somebody can explain to me , in first grade language, how to copy a link to a particular xuestion and answer from Quora.
    I’m sure it will be dirt simple…… once somebody shows me WHERE to click, lol.

    In the meantime,this is pretty long, but well worth reading if you have an interest in the natural world.
    There are pictures and graphs that didn’t post in the original.

    Marcelo Besser
    ·
    Updated 8h ago
    Why are animals that have brains bigger than humans not smarter than humans?

    There are, at the very least, two animals that can be safely and objectively said to be, without doubt and by any metric (neocortical or linguistic) smarter than humans, while common dolphins are our peers.

    Long-finned pilot whale

    Risso’s dolphin

    Other large brained animals don’t have more complex brains than ours, they’re just really big. Not these here. These are bigger and more complex and they show it in their language.

    Long-finned pilot whales are in fact big dolphins which have twice as many neocortical neurons than humans, have developed entirely new whole brain lobes; their language transmits several times more information in the same length of time.

    Even common dolphins have the ability to transmit acoustically 3d images (as if we were ‘saying holograms’), which superficially resemble anamorphic art: Science Shows Dolphins Communicate Holographically

    .

    …

    For the first time, we show that a species of dolphin has more neocortical neurons than any mammal studied to date including humans. These cell numbers are compared across various mammals with different brain sizes, and the function of possessing many neurons is discussed. We found that the long-finned pilot whale neocortex has approximately 37.2 × 10(9) neurons, which is almost twice as many as humans, and 127 × 10(9) glial cells. Thus, the absolute number of neurons in the human neocortex is not correlated with the superior cognitive abilities of humans (at least compared to cetaceans) as has previously been hypothesized.

    Quantitative relationships in delphinid neocortex

    Cetaceans have been “profiled” as ‘mere animals’, and always suffered nearly Victorian prejudice:

    “For several decades, the common view has been that cetacean cortex is homogeneous and fairly nondifferentiated in character. This view, exemplified by Kesarev (1971, 1975), has engendered much hypothesizing about where the structural (and functional) complexity of cetacean brains lies if not in highly modified and differentiated cortical units as is the case in primates (Glezer et al., 1988). This view of cetacean neocortex as a rather indistinct and also sparse structure had implications for views of cetacean cognitive complexity and intelligence. On the one hand, the apparent uniformity of the neocortex implied a low level of behavioral complexity in cetaceans (Gaskin, 1982; Aronson and Tobach, 1988). On the other hand, the homogeneous nature posed a perplexing inconsistency to those that accepted the accruing evidence for considerable cognitive and behavioral complexity in cetaceans (Glezer et al., 1988; Marino, 2002b). The present results, however, show that the cytoarchitectural patterns in cetaceans, at least based on the bottlenose dolphin, are far more varied and complex than generally thought.

    Cortical complexity in cetacean brains

    Yet they pay a high biological price for their brains, just as we do: Higher neuron densities in the cerebral cortex and larger cerebellums may limit dive times of delphinids compared to deep-diving toothed whales

    …

    Image Source, which also deserves a reading, What if Humans aren’t the Most Intelligent Creatures on Earth?

    .

    “Dolphins communicate holograms and now we can see them”. Science Shows Dolphins Communicate Holographically

    .

    In this study, we carried out a reliable measurement of the mutually noncoherent pulses and their subsequent analysis as the most probable acoustic signals of the hypothetic spoken language of dolphins.

    As this language exhibits all the design features present in the human spoken language, this indicates a high level of intelligence and consciousness in dolphins, and their language can be ostensibly considered a highly developed spoken language, akin to the human language. This claim is supported by the fact that dolphins have possessed brains that are somewhat larger and more complex than human ones for more than 25 million years [49]

    . Due to this, for further research in this direction, humans must take the first step to establish relationships with the first intelligent inhabitants of the planet Earth by creating devices capable of overcoming the barriers that stand in the way of using languages and in the way of communications between dolphins and people.

    The results obtained in this study suggest the existence of a similar highly developed spoken language in toothed whales (Odontoceti), based on the similarity of their acoustic signals and morphology. However, the problems of studying acoustic signals of dolphins and toothed whales considered in the study undoubtedly present an interesting field for further research.

    The study of acoustic signals and the supposed spoken language of the dolphins

    .

    Dolphins are, most likely, at the very least human peers. Without the ability to manipulate fire or smith metals, however, they are pretty much stuck in the Stone Age, by our mechanistic standards.

    Complex Social Structure of an Endangered Population of Bottlenose Dolphins (Tursiops truncatus) in the Aeolian Archipelago (Italy)

    Clues of cultural transmission in cooperative foraging between artisanal fishermen and bottlenose dolphins, Tursiops truncatus (Cetacea: Delphinidae)

    …

    Edit – their encephalization quotient
    (EQ, the brain to body relative size) is indeed slightly smaller (4–5) than humans’ (6-7) but larger than any nonhuman primate

    (3–4); while not denying this, I propose such EQ is large enough to pass an arbitrary threshold for higher intelligence, when considered together and along with neocortical and linguistic data.

    They really talk. Dolphins have individual names: In nature, dolphins ‘whistle’ by name.
    An example of a practical use of their language: Dolphins have a language that helps them solve problems together
    “In an experiment, six male bottlenose dolphins were given a locked capsule filled with food, resembling a large pill. It could only be opened when ropes at both ends were pulled simultaneously, encouraging the captive animals to work together. Just two dolphins managed to solve the puzzle and access the fishy treat hidden inside the capsule. But incredibly, these two animals completed the taxing task in 20 of the trials, working together to pull the capsule apart in just 30 seconds. They were able to show the increase in vocalisations, or ‘burst pulses’ which sound like squarks to humans, was linked to the task, as opposed to usual chatter between dolphins. Dr Eskelinen said: ‘This is the first time that we can say conclusively that dolphin vocalisations were used to solve a cooperative task.” Friendly dolphins talk to each other to solve difficult problems

    …

    These species deserve and require a level of legal protection at least similar to that of people. Their populations, as was to be expected under our needlessly destructive and hyper-predatory system, are quite small.

    Bottlenose dolphin – 600,000
    Long-finned pilot whale – 100,000 – 200,000, concentrated around the Faroe Islands, where they are still hunted, presumably for their indispensable lamp oil.
    Risso’s dolphin – 200,000 – 300,000

    1. O.F.M. —

      Extremely interesting! One time I volunteered to work with a dolphin research team. It’s a long story but I have one point to make; do not assume that because dolphins don’t build skyscrapers this somehow makes them inferior to humans. Dolphins are supremely adapted to THEIR environment, probably much better than humans are to theirs. The question is not who is smarter, dolphins or us, but what dolphins do with their (large) brains. This is of course being studied by scientists. One recent result: using Fourier Analysis, it has been established that a dolphin can “talk” to several different dolphins (different topics) at the same time. We don’t know what they are saying, yet. Hopefully that will happen eventually.

      SCIENCE SHOWS DOLPHINS COMMUNICATE HOLOGRAPHICALLY

      https://upliftconnect.com/dolphins-communicate-holographically/

      1. Estimable DougL,

        Yes Doug, it is a long story. Now please tell it, for all our benefit.

        Thanks.

        Time for a little more…

      2. That’s amazing if true.
        Somehow, I am reminded of those chameleons with each of their eyes independently looking around.

    2. I agree, I have long held the opinion that cetaceans and the larger primate/Apes should be classified as legally human, term used years ago was “legal Entity ” .

      Eventually we will be able to effectivly talk with them……. recognized as a legal nation/s in the UN I’ll be the former whaling nations will not be pleased !

      Remember just because you cannot communicate with someone does not mean they are not sentient .

      Will that mean that they have “souls”? , if yes then the religions will be in a right stew !

      Forbin

      PS: in case no one has said it yet , Douglas Adams 😉

    3. ‘Without the ability to manipulate fire or smith metals, however, they are pretty much stuck in the Stone Age’

      Very hominid way of seeing the world.
      The inability to manipulate (rootword ‘man’) may be an advantage. No ability equals no need.
      No need to kill more than you can eat, no need to destroy.
      No need to have the desire to grab.
      No pockets to stuff. No need to covet ‘things’.
      Perhaps they are more content.
      Perhaps they are honored and respected in their community more for the quality of their poetry than the treasures they hoard.

      1. Exactly. However, the fact dolphins demonstrate self-awareness, problem-solving, empathy, innovation, teaching skills, grief, joy, playfulness and language doesn’t count for much when they haven’t even learned to control fire. 😉

        1. I took Japanese tourists dolphin watching on Guam.
          Free trip if no dolphins. They knew the boat (trimaran), and a good time was had by all.
          However, it is a bit more complex than the popular discourse.
          As stated, bottlenose can be quite aggressive.

            1. Nope—-
              But I have been bumped hard a few times.
              The memories are starting to fade—

          2. “However, it is a bit more complex than the popular discourse.”

            And who suggested otherwise? BTW Somehow I doubt “tourist dolphin watching” is going to provide much insight into inter-species communication. If you think we are being too simplistic, you might want to read the following, as a starter. In the cited paper signal spectra were calculated using the 4096-point fast Fourier transform.

            STUDY OF ACOUSTIC SIGNALS AND THE SUPPOSED SPOKEN LANGUAGE OF THE DOLPHINS

            “… a reliable measurement of the mutually noncoherent pulses and their subsequent analysis as the most probable acoustic signals of the hypothetic spoken language of dolphins. As this language exhibits all the design features present in the human spoken language, this indicates a high level of intelligence and consciousness in dolphins, and their language can be ostensibly considered a highly developed spoken language, akin to the human language. This claim is supported by the fact that dolphins have possessed brains that are somewhat larger and more complex than human ones for more than 25 million years. Due to this, for further research in this direction, humans must take the first step to establish relationships with the first intelligent inhabitants of the planet Earth by creating devices capable of overcoming the barriers that stand in the way of using languages and in the way of communications between dolphins and people.”

            https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405722316301177

      2. hate to say this but Orcas flinging their food at each other …… reminds me of humans

        1. I’ve only been involved in one food fight in my time, and that was in the high school cafeteria. None of the food was live though.

      3. Hickory,

        “hand” not “man.”

        (Too early for Port, mutter mutter)

    4. OFM —
      Having a big brain doesn’t necessarily result in higher intelligence because higher intelligence isn’t necessarily all that useful. The human brain did not evolve to create the human technology, civilization etc. All that stuff is the accidental byproduct of something that developed in a very different environment. The question isn’t why big brained elephants are more intelligent. The question is why humans are so smart.

      A good example of this is the eternal argument among linguists about the origin of language. There a five main theories. The bowwow theory, the lala theory, the poopoo theory, the dingdong theory and the yo-heave-ho theory. None are very convincing.

      My personal preference is a version of the lala theory, stating that that language was invented as a way of attracting sex partners, like a peacock’s tail. Or maybe other social activities, reflected in the different kinds of singing, like war cries, lullabies, love songs and team building songs like hymns and anthems. Later these skills were repurposed. But there is a lot of holes in this theory.

      Language really differentiates us from other animals, but it is strange. Singing is just the start. Why do people say hello, and complain about the weather so much? Why do people of all cultures yell something about gods, sex, diseases or bodily fluids when they hit their thumb with a hammer? Why do leaders make speeches? Why do women engage in more short back and forth dialog, and men is longer presentations? Why do people write comments on websites like this?

      One of the more interesting results of experiments teaching chimpanzees to talk is how little interest they have in small talk. Chimps are smart enough to learn a simple language, but they don’t teach it to other chimps, and use it almost exclusively to get specific things like treats or tickles. Chimps do not drone on about their day, or about other chimps, or how beautiful the sunset was, or their back problems or anything else. They don’t seem to feel the need.

      There are plenty of theories about all this, all incomplete or plain wrong, but the bottom line is that intelligent behavior isn’t just a natural byproduct of brain size — it’s a specific set of skills developed to fit some environment or another. This environment is long gone, so our intelligence may seem pretty neat in retrospect, but at the time it developed it was just an oddity.

      1. I think people starting talking in an attempt to settle disputes and negotiate , instead of just killing each other.
        It works sometimes.

        1. Or less politely, language is a tool for manipulating others. Could be.

          One theory on the development of intelligence is that language was developed to manipulate others, such as evoking a flight reaction when a predator was spotted. Then intelligence began when people started talking to themselves, developing the ability to manipulate themselves.
          The human mind seems to be made up of modules that developed for specific purposes and the repurposed for more general tasks. There is a theory and some experimental evidence that logic developed from a mechanism for detecting cheaters in social situations. By talking to yourself, you can reformulate other problems so the cheating mechanism can solve them.

          Take a visual example: If you are trying to pick out a rock that is pointy, not round, AND light colored, not dark, from a pile of rocks, you do it much more slowly than picking out a pointy rock or a light colored rock. The individual differentiation is an easy task your visual system solves very quickly. But once the AND is introduced, you need to involve cheat detection — Your cheat detector understand the rule and triggers your visual system. It identifies a candidate, say a light colored rock, and then coordinates with the cheat detector to decide if the candidate is really suitable. The cheat detector then queries the visual system on the pointiness of the rock, and so on. This is a slow but powerful process, and experiments show that multiple feature recognition is much slower than single feature recognition.

          The idea is that language is what does the coordination — using output from one internal system to trigger behaviors in another internal system. So maybe a system designed to manipulate others had its greatest value in self manipulation, and talking to yourself is the main point to language.

          1. “Or less politely, language is a tool for manipulating others.”

            More likely, language = communication. Mathematics, in its various forms, is a “language”. I employed this “language” in my work for forty years and doubt it manipulated anyone, guided (or misguided) perhaps, but not manipulated. Is giving directions to someone lost manipulating them? Is music, another “language” manipulating people or entertaining them? Is art, another “language” manipulating people or expanding their world? Is poetry, another “language” manipulating people or (possibly) inspiring them. Methinks you are being rather one dimensional with that definition. 😉

            1. I was talking about proto-language, not language, and should have stated that more clearly.

              You point out that language is good for poetry, but it is an evolved trait, and it is hard to see how its first squeaks and grunts would have been selected for if it were just for poetry.

              The point my post was trying to make is that the language and intelligence we have now evolved for much different purposes than they are used for now, and for that reason that intelligence is more an accident than an inevitable byproduct of brain size.

              As to whether you manipulate people, as opposed to “communicating” with them, I would submit that it’s a fine line. For example, if I say to my sister at Thanksgiving dinner, “Please pass the butter”, I am attempting to get her to pick up the butter and hand it to me, which she would not have done if I had not said it. So this speech act is intended to induce her to modify her behavior. Call it what you will.

              When biologists attempt to figure out how behavior evolves, they think it terms of abstract agents and strictly utilitarian goals. This may miss some details, but has the advantage of being easier to think about.

              If you’d read a little more carefully, you would see that this is one of the things that is hard to explain about languages. When I say “Please pass the butter”, it is doubtful that I am merely “communicating” my desire to have butter. I am clearly hoping that my sister will react, so abstractly, this is an attempt by one agent to manipulate the behavior of another.

              As I pointed out, this is very much in line with how chimps use learned language, which in 99% of the recorded cases is requests for food or tickles. People, on the other hand, say things like “What a beautiful sunset!” Chimps almost never do, though I think there are a tiny number of counterexamples. Chimps may think these thoughts, but they don’t use language to express them. Humans have an irrepressible urge to. One theory to explain this human behavior is the “peacock tail” idea I discussed. But nobody knows.

            2. Interesting.
              I’ve been amazed that my dog could learn so many words.
              I often wondered if they have word based internal dialogue.
              I watch him think about a question I’ve ask, and then make a decision yes or no.
              Sometimes he just stares at me until I finally understand what he wants.
              I get the sense he thinks I can read his mind.

          2. “Or less politely, language is a tool for manipulating others. ”

            Good point.
            Thats how my family uses it.
            And it is how the voice in my head uses it on me.

  10. I’ve had Bottlenose get agro on me several times.
    Spinners? Never.

  11. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/driverless-trucks-could-disrupt-the-trucking-industry-as-soon-as-2021-60-minutes-2020-08-23/

    So far I haven’t seen any articles in the mainstream press about autonomous vehicles wherein the authors don’t ASS U ME that they will be electrically driven.

    But there’s absolutely no reason that once the driving technology is ready they can’t be built with conventional gasoline or diesel engines, and for substantially less money. Charging time, forget about it, range forget about it.

    I’m not knocking batteries or fuel cells, I’m simply thinking like a farmer or other self employed tradesman, about the ways we can make use of what we HAVE, rather than what we would like to have.

    Considering how much UP FRONT money can be saved using a conventional engine, and how much easier it would be to keep an autonomous taxi or delivery truck on the road, even to the extent of being on the road twenty four hours straight with only three or maybe four stops for gasoline or two stops for diesel in a big truck……..

    We may see a million autonomous commercial vehicles on the road that run on gasoline and diesel sooner than we see that many that run on electricity.

    It’s no problem AT ALL these days to build an engine that will run a hundred thousand miles without a single breakdown. It would be even easier if the engine and associated parts are standardized and designed for reliability and ease of service.

    Another five hundred bucks spent upgrading problematic components at the factory level would very likely reduce already rare on the road failures by seventy five percent, maybe more, for the first three hundred or four hundred thousand miles.

    If you need to replace a fuel pump………. it’s easy if there’s an access panel over the tank, the way they used to build Volvo’s. Not so easy if you have to take the tank out and put it back. Thirty minutes on the shop floor versus two hours at least on the lift.

    1. OFM, there was a project to get an ICE to be sealed for life as far as oil changes , etc , goes , just add petrol . Not sure if the project was still going but life meant 150K miles .

      As far as AI goes , cars? Well I ‘ve been looking at the Lawer/Solicitor AI programs ………… fully AI = no human errors . And no big fees either ! its there at the edges of law gradually moving in .

      Forbin

      1. I think i heard last year that new Audi vehicles in Europe (and soon to be North America) had the hood locked. It was no longer a user-accessible area. You’d had to go to the dealer to get service.

        I haven’t chased that down to see if it’s arrived here or not.

        1. I’ve seen reports about that rumor going back 6 years.

          Can’t imagine Audi customers on Germany accepting locked hoods.

          But then I still can’t grasp why people would drive fat ass SUVs on tiny city roads…

    2. In order to save energy, and lives, there is no technical impediment to instituting nationwide vehicle speed control.
      Vehicles could be programed to be limited to the speed limit, with geographic info system utilized for the purpose of location.
      And those who defy the law could be identified, charged and penalized automatically, no human involved.

      Yes, it would an example of taking away a measure of freedom for the sake of the common good.
      Big deal. You could still drive about 20 times faster than walking. And listen to music.

      Worse to me is some religious leader trying to tell me what to think.

    3. There are two problems with traditional cars as autonomous vehicles:

      First, traditional cars don’t exchange much data internally. The driver usually has an overview of all the information he needs. The navigation in my Audi gets a message when the gas tank is low, but doesn’t have any ability to query the amount of fuel available. It also can’t use turn signals or switch on the lights. ABS works independently of the rest of the vehicle. Unfastened seatbelts make the car beep, but the data isn’t part of the rest of the system and can’t be queried.

      Second, there is the problem of mechanical control. Power steering and power brakes are standard these days, but would require electric motors to power the controls adding another layer of complexity. Four wheel power, regen braking, active suspension and four wheel steering all driven by a central computer would make more sense in an autonomous vehicle. AL data would be available to all systems as required.

      Something like this:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnbSnVPFSNg

      Mechanically, these things are very simple compared to a traditional vehicle. All the complexity is in the electronics and software.

      1. I basically agree with everything you have said, but nothing you have said means anything in terms of using a gasoline or diesel engine versus an electric motor and a battery.
        Adding these tech upgrades to a gasoline fueled car won’t cost any more than adding them to an electric car.

        And such a gasoline fueled autonomous car might really prove to be considerably cheaper to own and run, IF you consider the opportunity cost involved in putting considerably more money into the electric car, because of that expensive battery.

        Suppose you can run it twenty three hours per day on call, versus twenty because an electric car might need a couple of hours to charge a couple of times a day, losing customers.

        In the long run, maybe five to ten more years, the electric motor and battery might actually cost less up front than a conventional engine and transmission.

        I’m personally willing to bet that electric cars will be purchase cost competitive within five or six more years.

        1. One factor is the cost of redesigning an existing model, which can be enormous. Moving to fully electronic design (Centralized computer management, greater power requirements which suggest increasing the system voltage from 12V to perhaps 48V, drive-by-wire vs hydraulics, mechanical wires, belts, etc) means a fundamental reimagining of many things. Again, that’s very expensive – it requires long term planning, involvement of many suppliers with their own lead times and investment costs for redesign and so on. Many car companies are trying to turn their ICEs into cash cows with minimal investment, while putting their R&D money into EVs. That’s consistent with the relatively short planning window you suggest at the end of your comment.

          I think don’t think any passenger cars would have a 24-hour duty cycle: they have peak demand during the daytime, especially during commuting periods. So, the number of vehicles needed from 10PM-6AM would be 25% or less of the daytime number, leaving plenty of time for at least one full charge. I suspect the reduction of operating cost would more than pay for charging downtime during the day.

          For long-haul trucks, one effective solution would be swapping of batteries. It’s the same principle of containerization which has transformed freight shipping in the last 50 years.

          1. Hi Nick,

            You’re right, passenger vehicles won’t be busy 24 hours, but delivery vehicles could be kept on the road more or less continuously except for the time needed to load and unload.

            Adding the autonomous driving hardware to a conventional truck won’t cost any more than the autonomous hardware itself. Existing trucks have everything needed to be driven by humans, lol. Slaving the engine to the driving computer would be a piece of cake.

            I’m simply speculating of course, but I haven’t seen any convincing argument, so far, to the effect that running an autonomous truck with a battery and electric motor will necessarily be any more profitable than running an autonomous truck with a gasoline or diesel engine in the near to middle term.

            Given that oil depletes, and that high fuel taxes are likely to be imposed for a number of reasons, I’m willing to speculate that batteries and electric motors will be the more profitable choice……. eventually.

            In the meantime, a truck fitted with a diesel engine might sell for not much more than half the price of one fitted with batteries big enough to ” giterdone”.

            The owner of such a truck wouldn’t have to give any consideration at all to charging time or to routing it so it COULD be charged. It could go anyplace trucks go today….

            And it could save the owner something to the tune of a hundred to a hundred fifty thousand bucks or so, maybe more, annually. It takes two drivers to keep a truck on the road, and even then, it’s generally not actually moving more than eighteen hours a day, and less than that on a year around basis.

            According to this link, class eight trucks average less than sixty five thousand miles a year. Some guys I know who drive cross country say they put up to five thousand miles on their truck in a seven day week sometimes.

            This can be done if they ” hook and drop” meaning turn around time is as little as an hour.

            That means staying on the road except for food and fuel and any mandatory stops with two drivers, and can seldom be accomplished except running coast to coast and even so, it’s tricky. There’s that ” damned computer log” these days.

            An autonomous truck capable of averaging sixty mph could do it a hell of a lot faster, and save the owner at least fifteen hundred to two thousand bucks, possibly three thousand bucks, in wages, workers comp, and benefits. Insurance costs would be lower too.

            So ……… you tell me……….. are trucking companies going to WAIT until the electric autonomous truck is readily available for purchase or lease……. or will they go with a diesel autonomous truck, if they think they can run it three or four years while they WAIT in line for an electric truck?

            This speculation of course assumes that autonomous hardware hits the market at least three or four years sooner than battery powered trucks.

            It might be ten years or longer before there are enough charging stations to make it possible for battery powered trucks to go almost any where almost any time.

        2. OFM —
          I think what I’m trying to say is that combustion engines may continue to compete with battery EVs or hydrogen for some time, but they will lose their central role in the vehicle, and be just another power source.

          Electric motors are better than combustion engines in just about any way, but combustion engines have the wonderful ability to convert liquid fuel into mechanical energy. And since liquid fuel is still the best storage system around, combustion engines may survive in some form.

          But vehicles will definitely move away from complex mechanical solutions and become increasingly software-centric. This is even happening to combustion engines themselves. Carburetors are being replaced by fuel injection, and there is talk of eliminating camshafts as well, with software controlling the valves instead.

          I think self driving would be easier to implement in the software-centric world. But I agree with you that that doesn’t necessarily eliminate combustion.

  12. The Kick-Me Sign Society

    Continued from here…

    “I don’t think there’s anything wrong with non-formal education…
    You’re right that it can be more effective, but it can also be less effective if you don’t also educate yourself on induction and hypothesis-testing, and develop a skill in evaluating and reconciling experiment and theory. As you probably know, these aren’t simple skills.” ~ GerryF

    Unless you’re talking about large-scales and complexities and group efforts (which have their inherent sets of issues) they seem pretty simple actually, even though you may want to present them otherwise. So feel free to elaborate.

    Natural aptitudes come before skills and no amount of ‘formal training/education’ is going to ‘skill’ any random animal to do what only humans can. Maybe ditto in reverse with the dolphin example if true in the threads above.
    Similarly, it will also have its limits with those who have less of an aptitude than others for something.

    Humans didn’t come into being with ‘formal training/education’. It was all ‘informal’ up until extremely recently. So formal training/education doesn’t seem all that important or as important as you might want to present it, especially since civilizations can decline/collapse in spite of it.

    BTW, as a related aside, I wonder if COVID-19 could be considered as a bit of a Kick Me sign attached to the back of a ‘morbid’ society (junk and fast food-eating, bad medical system-building, overpopulated, natural-integrity-killing, polluting, FF-burning, and sedentary/overspecialized lifestyle/work, etc.) that is, ironically or paradoxically looking for an excuse/scape-goat for its ‘morbidities’. (Double irony/Kick Me if it was an escapee from a lab.)

    Excess mortality? Oh please.

    1. “Common sense” has always been around, and history shows that sometimes it’s not so common, and sometimes it’s not so sensible.

      The scientific method is just “Organized Common Sense”, and was a revolutionary way of thinking and learning.

      As others have written, it was common sense when Aristotle said that men had more teeth than women. If Aristotle had known about the scientific method, he would have asked Mrs. Aristotle and all his daughters to open their mouths.

  13. Bangladesh, formerly east Pakistan, at 160 Million people is one of the most densely populated countries in the world. Half the population of the USA, and about 3 times larger than Louisiana. And considerably more lush, swampy, and poor than Louisiana.

    And extremely vulnerable to climate change related flooding.
    Here is the current status of planning-
    Bangladesh Delta Plan (BDP) 2100-
    https://www.gwp.org/globalassets/global/gwp-sas_images/gwp-sas-in-action/ldai/bdp-2100-ppt.pdf

    1. Recommend doing a Google Street View on places in Bangladesh such as around Dhaka to understand just how many people there are. Typically in a Street View, you see a few people milling around, but in Bangladesh, the streets are crowded with people in the streets, even in what appear to be back alleys.

    2. India is chronically worried about this episode replaying itself-

      “The events of 1971 (independence from Pakistan) while creating the new nation of Bangladesh, caused the upheaval of nearly 10 million people (migration to adjacent India), and the death of three million more.”

      This came on the heels of the late 1970 Cyclone of the century-
      “The 1970 Bhola cyclone was a devastating tropical cyclone that struck East Pakistan (present-day Bangladesh) and India’s West Bengal on November 3, 1970. It remains the deadliest tropical cyclone ever recorded and one of the deadliest natural disasters. At least 500,000 people lost their lives in the storm, primarily as a result of the storm surge that flooded much of the low-lying islands of the Ganges Delta..”
      Expect to hear news like this more often.

      And what may be a flashback for a few of you com padres-
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tby39qh9Lts

    1. This case does indeed indicate re-infection, rather than relapse, since it was a different strain.
      “He was found to have contracted a different coronavirus strain from the one he had previously contracted and remained asymptomatic for the second infection.”
      Good news that he didn’t get sick, but bad news that he was likely an asymptomatic spreader for a short period.

  19. Renewable energy in U.S. now at roughly 12 percent. That’s quite impressive, if you think about it.

    U.S. NATURAL GAS POWER GENERATION HITS RECORD

    “On the day of the record natural gas burn, July 27, natural gas accounted for 45 percent of all electricity generated in the Lower 48 states, followed by coal with a 24-percent share, nuclear at 17 percent, renewable energy at 12 percent, and other sources at 3 percent.”

    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/US-Natural-Gas-Power-Generation-Hits-Record.html

    1. Former Gov Kasich is a thoughtful and reasonable man.
      He is a rare example.
      Almost all the politicians in that category are with the democratic party now.
      Its a reflection of the republican voters.
      They don’t reward those like Kasich anymore.
      Maybe Hogan in Maryland.
      Its a very short list.
      The republicans prefer wide world of wrestling reality show for their leaders.

      1. I’m afraid Hickory is right. It pains me excessively to see that so many basically decent people, the sort of people who are often willing to give a stranger the shirt off their back, are so ignorant as to fall for trump and his homies.

        But it’s not necessarily their fault. They simply don’t KNOW any better.

        As the circus guy said, nobody ever went broke overestimating the ignorance of the general public.

        1. Yes, and people are very gullible and easily fooled by promises of a great deal, miracles, and conspiracy.
          Its why so many cults, and their big brothers- religions, have been so wildly successful.
          I wonder if artificial intelligence technology can be used to help people with reality?
          Perhaps just the opposite.

          1. For most of my life I couldn’t understand how Hitler gained control in the 30’s in Germany. I still don’t completely get it, but now I have a much better idea. For almost all of the last 4 years, I have been trying to figure out were America currently is in the Germany 1930’s calendar. At times I thought the current political events were 1933 or 1934 and even 1938.

            But I have now come to the conclusion that election day November 3, 2020 is D-day June 6, 1944. This is a war for our democracy. We don’t have to carry a gun or get shot at and risk our lives. All we have to do is have the country realize what is at stake and take one day out of our lives to save the world and ourselves. Because if we don’t get a beach head on election day. There will be more blood on the streets coming than was seen during WWII in Germany.

            Maybe Americans are so naive to think it could ever happen here, or just to busy on their cell phone at the stop light checking their Facebook page to be bothered. For those of you who are sleep walking. You never realize what you had until it’s gone.

            Keep in mind, World War 2 didn’t end on D-day and this fight won’t be over either. The check engine light is flashing and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

            Wake up America

            1. Well said.
              And this country has weaponry galore.
              So far, white/right wing supremacy terrorism have been isolated events.
              Someday, they will be coordinated, courtesy of Q or Trump Org or some such fascist group.
              Meanwhile, Nicky Haley and Ivanka will just smile.

            2. I think it is either already happening, or a Trump loss will expedite right wing terrorism and violence.

              I am mulling over the idea of suggesting to my American sister that she and her family start the process of ‘getting out’. I often think about what relatives of the oppressed in Nazi Germany thought at the time. Should I/Shouldn’t I?, will I offend? , should I mind my own business? etc etc.

            3. Yes Paulo. I think about that as well- if Trump loses the election his followers/voters will act up, and he and Steve Bannon and fox news will be inciting their fervor.
              We saw a glimpse of that in Portland last night, and Kenosha last week.

              And if Trump wins, I too may be seeking exit. There may be a flood heading to exit doors.
              My passport renewal is in progress.

            4. I’ve been back in the States for a few years.
              It might be time to leave again.

  21. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-honda-electric/honda-goes-small-with-first-all-electric-car-idUSKBN25N03Q

    I’ve never heard much about Honda and electric cars in the same paragraph, lol.

    My guess is that this new model is all about breaking into the electric car market, figuring out the battery supply, etc. getting the bugs out of electric design and construction, etc.

    Eleven thousand cars a year is a pittance for a company as big as Honda.

    Look for a mid size Honda electric within the next two or three years.

    1. speaking of batteries, I spoke to a guy who installs PV and battery backup systems in Calif yesterday.
      They have been an authorized dealer of Tesla batteries since they were first offered.
      He said business is too busy to keep up with, and that they put in an order for 31 Tesla Powerwall units – and only got delivery of three. Indefinate backorder. They have customers on very long wait lists.

      “The U.S. energy battery storage market is expected to expand from an annual deployment of 523 MW in 2019 to 7.3 GW in 2025” —[thats 14 fold folks!]

      This kind of supply/demand issue will certainly constrain automakers who don’t get their battery supply chain locked up.
      The global economy is going to have to work hard to meet the demand this decade.

      1. Of course the only place in the USA that has a solar resource as good as Spain and Portugal is the hot dry southwest, but never the less……….

        https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/08/27/portuguese-government-confirms-world-record-solar-price-of-0-01316-kwh/

        In ten more years, half the homeowners in the USA will probably be looking at having their own PV as a no brainer.

        I wonder how long it’s going to take the battery industry to catch up.

        “The U.S. energy battery storage market is expected to expand from an annual deployment of 523 MW in 2019 to 7.3 GW in 2025” —[thats 14 fold folks!]

        Somehow I doubt the battery industry can ramp up that fast. Where will the mined feed stocks come from so fast in such quantities?

        1. “the only place in the USA that has a solar resource as good as Spain and Portugal is the hot dry southwest,”

          Actually, the USA has pretty good (excellent) solar resource in a widespread distribution.
          If you assign the solar resource [annual irradiation at optimum tilt angle] at
          Madrid a value of 100, here are representative comparisons in the USA
          Chicago 82
          Baltimore 87
          Yakima,WA 92
          Charlotte,NC 93
          Montgomery,AL 95
          Lisbon,PT 97
          Casper,WY 100
          Madrid,SP 100
          Colorado Springs,CO 108
          Bakersfield,CA 113
          El Paso,TX 125

          A cool thing about solar electricity production is that tens of millions of individuals can have a piece of ownership. Directly or indirectly.

      2. BYD and Fronius Solar Energy announce compatibility of the flexible storage system Battery-Box Premium with Fronius inverter lines
        https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/press-releases/byd-and-fronius-solar-energy-announce-compatibility-of-the-flexible-storage-system-battery-box-premium-with-fronius-inverter-lines/
        “BYD Co. Ltd., one of the world’s largest manufacturers of rechargeable batteries, announces the compatibility of the energy storage system Battery-Box Premium HVM with the Symo Hybrid inverter series by Austrian solar energy expert Fronius Solar Energy. The compatibility of the Battery-Box Premium HVS & HVM lines with Fronius Symo GEN24 Plus will follow soon.”

        1. Do you folks know anything about retro-fitting, swapping out ICE for electric? I did it years ago with a mini bike 🙂 Now, I have an ’81 Westfalia with a new engine, but I am always tinkering with it. The body, chasis, running gear primo condition, but I am sick of wondering if I will have to swap out another starter or fuel pump? It is 40 years old…I get it. But still…. A 300 klick range would do me just fine.

          Thanks in advance as I will check back later. Going out to enjoy a beautiful fall day. Cheers.

            1. Thank you,

              After I asked I later thought what a dummy, I could just look it up in a search. Thanks again and now will see some ideas!!

  22. Trump and his butt licking home boys can’t stop the revolution, not even in Texas.

    Texas’s first zero-energy capable housing community, Whisper Valley, has chosen Longhorn Solar to be one of three approved solar panel vendors for the community. Located in East Austin, each of the 7,000 planned homes will feature geothermal energy, solar power, high-efficiency appliances and Nest Smart Home technology. Each home will produce an average of 7,000 kWh annually. Source: Longhorn Solar

  23. Shot in back (multiple times), paralyzed from waist down, clinging to life, shackled to hospital bed = insanity.

    JACOB BLAKE IS SHACKLED TO HOSPITAL BED

    “A lawyer for the family, Ben Crump, said that Mr. Blake’s injuries are severe, including damage to his bowels, shattered vertebrae and bullet fragments in his spinal cord. He has undergone several surgeries, Mr. Blake’s father said, and it was unclear whether the paralysis would be permanent.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/28/us/kenosha-shooting-protests.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

      1. Difference is, in ’33 Germany put a cunning political operator in power who had been seeking absolute power since at least 1923.

        It took him just 52 days to go from head of government (January 30th) to dictator (March 24th), legally.

        American democracy has been shot through the lungs and had a leg cut off, I give you that.
        But it’s still time to drag it to the ER and get it fixed and recovered.
        It’s just a question of who will get to it first.
        The shooters or the medics…

    2. Moral of the story is, if he would’ve complied with Law Enforcement, he wouldn’t be in the situation he is now.

      1. PHF,
        There is no denying that people of all races and walks of life would help to protect themselves from mistreatment (and paralysis, colon removal, or worse) by complying with law enforcement.
        No doubt.

        But also consider, when it comes to morals as you bring up, that this kind of problem rarely happens to white people who don’t comply, or who resist arrest.
        This difference in treatment is a cut and dry example severe systemic racism.
        And that is not how a moral country behaves itself.
        No excuse.

        1. NO EXCUSE.
          Hickory is dead on.

          The cop who shot this man in the back seven times ought to be in prison, and kept there, for whatever is the average period of time people get for murder, plus another four or five years because he IS a cop.

          What the right wingers fail to understand is that when cops get away with this sort of thing, they themselves will be on the receiving end of the bullets at some future date, because they have the wrong last name, or work in the wrong industry, or oppose the wrong politician, or have a problem with a particular cop who will get away with it because the other cops, and the rest of the right wingers, will cover for the corrupt or incompetent cop.

          1. Cops lack martial ethos. A vast number seem like they’d rather shoot a citizen than take a punch. Unloading 1/2 a mag on a dude’s back is pathetic under any circumstances outside of a primed suicide vest. I guess the ‘double-tap and observe’ is out.
            I think the National Guard is better at de-conflicting potential violence these days cuz not everybody wants to kick their ass for being a bunch pussies, and most would rather take a punch than shoot an unarmed civy; good brawling ethos.

            1. And their job(cops) is not that dangerous:

              Most dangerous jobs:
              Logging workers
              Fishers and related fishing workers
              Aircraft pilots and flight engineers
              Roofers
              Refuse and recyclable material collectors
              Driver/sales workers and truck drivers
              Farmers, ranchers and other agricultural managers
              Structural iron and steel workers
              First-line supervisors of construction trades and extraction workers
              First-line supervisors of landscaping, lawn service and groundskeeping workers
              Electrical power-line installers and repairers
              Grounds maintenance workers
              Miscellaneous agricultural workers
              Helpers, construction trades
              First-line supervisors of mechanics, installers and repairers

              (I’ve had 3 in the top 10)

      2. This is an idiotic claim, since the protest is about someone who was shot seven times in the back while complying to law enforcement.

    1. Sounds about right considering what’s been going on in Asia. And, from your link: “In the United States, a total of 103 coal-fired power plants have been converted to natural gas or replaced by natural gas-fired plants since 2011, according to EIA estimates.” So, still on fossil fuels.

    2. Biofuels a huge threat to wildlife, forests and lush grasslands.
      Damage to the global ecosystem much worse than coal.
      Worse than global warming.

      ‘80% of Indonesian rainforest vulnerable to palm oil destruction is not protected’
      https://phys.org/news/2020-08-indonesian-rainforest-vulnerable-palm-oil.html

      https://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2019/12/21/eu-remains-largest-biodiesel-producer/

      Next the Congo will be cut to make room for sugar cane and palm oil.

      “Using biofuels have a greater environmental impact than burning fossil fuels, according to experts. Although the fuels themselves emit fewer greenhouse gases, they all have higher costs in terms of biodiversity loss and destruction of farmland. ”
      https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jan/04/sciencenews.biofuels

      https://www.leonardodicaprio.org/dangerous-delusions-biomass-is-not-a-renewable-energy-source/

      1. Soil is the last fossil fuel, extracted via biofuels. WHO declared them a crime against humanity last decade but crime against nature is more like it.

    1. Hint:

      “[I]s it really smart to educate people to technologically and theoretically refine a system that operates by undermining the conditions of possibility for our biophysical survival?”

    1. Robert Wilson,

      I do too.

      Except for the woefully appropriate black border.

      Time for Port

  27. Updates from the nuclear energy sector-
    1. The first up small modular nuclear (SMR) reactor in the world has now made it through entire the regulatory approval process, now with final approval to begin 1st site construction Idaho. The company, out of Oregon State Univ, has a 60 MW design that can be linked together up to 720MW. Their major investor is the engineering company Fluor.
    https://www.nuscalepower.com/

    2. A competitor, Terrapower, in the SMR sector has announced a plan to combine its powerplants with on site storage, in the form of molten salt. Terrapower has been funded in large part by Bill Gates.
    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/bill-gates-nuclear-reactor-company-adds-molten-salt-storage-to-its-smr-system
    https://www.terrapower.com/

    3. In Illinois, Exelon is threatening to prematurely close two nuclear reactors unless it receives state subsidies to help fund operations, decades ahead of schedule. Keep in mind that Illinois is broke, like Greece 7 years ago.
    https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/exelon-threatens-to-close-two-nuclear-plants-as-battle-over-state-subsidies-looms

    Me, I am opposed to considering any approval of new nuclear production, or renewal of operating permits- until a permanent national high level radiation storage site is up and running. And I am opposed to any federal loan guarantees [meaning that the tax payers are on the hook for any projects that get loans, but fail to pay them off]. If the projects are not financially viable enough to get funding on their own through normal channels- no thanks.

  29. Good news story to share:

    This Saturday in Vancouver BC, Trump Tower Hotel shut down permanently. The sign on the entrance said, “Not Covid Related”. Funny, people just stopped staying there about 3.5 years ago. The above condos were also losing value.

  30. Dennis/Ron,

    If possible, would you please either forward (e-mail) the link to the following article to Fred Magyar in Florida for me or, ask him to e-mail me, or give me his e-mail address so I can do it myself. Haven’t heard from Fred in eons but am certain he would find it very interesting. Thanks.

    SCIENCE SHOWS DOLPHINS COMMUNICATE HOLOGRAPHICALLY

    https://upliftconnect.com/dolphins-communicate-holographically/

  33. https://www.floridadaily.com/state-regulators-take-aim-at-home-solar-rights/
    Net Metering is not a right, The Bastards screwed energy dereg. It’s over anyway with Rule 21 which gives the Utility to control PV on the Edge. Florida will go from 1 watt to hundreds of watts per capita with most of it being Monopoly owned. Next-era owns all of Jinko’s panel production. The solution will be defection. The latest solar-battery is so much better than just months ago.

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