84 thoughts to “Open Thread Non-Petroleum, November 18, 2020”

  1. To all the good people on the Peak Oil Barrel blog. I started this blog about seven years ago, ran it for about five years, and then turned it over to Dennis Coyne. And I must say he has done a fantastic job. I could not have chosen a better person for the job.

    But now due to failing health and conflicting demands on my time, I must call it quits. I have another project going and it poses tremendous demands on my time. And I don’t think I have a lot of time left. But the research I must do, books and articles to read and videos to watch, consume hours every day of my time.

    Also, there are other personal demands on my time. I am currently living with a wonderful lady, a widow seven years my junior. We are living in sin, but at our age, we are not doing a whole lot of sinning. ? My failing health is having an effect on our relationship. But we will remain dear friends for the rest of our lives.

    Around January or February, pandemic permitting, I am going to pull my little RV from New Mexico to North Alabama and live out my remaining days there. I will live alone, in my little RV but near most of my family. I will be living near one of the large lakes on the Tennessee River. I am buying a pontoon boat and will enjoy my time when on the lake when I am not busy doing other things. I will not be bored.

    If and when I ever finish my project, I will post a link on the blog. I will use a different email address for I plan on banning this one.

    Goodbye and good luck to everyone,

    Ron Patterson

    1. Thanks very much for what you’ve done, and best of luck with your project, and your health!

      Never say never – we’d be delighted to hear from you occasionally.

    2. Best of luck Ron—
      You have been a constant source of insight.
      Run with the hunted—-
      –hightrekker

    4. Ron,

      Im sad to hear your leaving, i will miss you and your straight forward tell it like it is posts.

      I hope your health improves and that you will pop in for the occasional comment.

      Enjoy the lake, family and life. Take care!

    6. Ron, you’re living in sin? Excellent. God bless you. Stick it to those evangelicals right to the end 🙂

      Thanks so much for this blog and all your comments. You will be missed…

    7. Farewell to you Ron, I will be praying you are blessed with improved health soon.

    8. Over the years, on here, and in your Darwinian days on the Oil Drum I have learnt much from you writings.

      Take it easy mate . . . and all the best from Down Under.

    9. Take care Ron!

      Nature is better than the keyboard (I live in a small house in the forest with my dear ones).

      Best,

    11. Hello Ron ,

      sorry to see you go but feel free to contribute again when ever you get the time. I have enjoyed your posts and although sometimes I disagree I have the greatest respect for your views. I will miss your posts , humour, wit and occational scathing remarks 😉

      be well and enjoy life .

      Forbin

    12. Thanks for your endeavours over the years and best wishes for those in the future. I usually checked out your comments if one was shown in the recent comment section, the discussion threads were always interesting.

    13. Hi Ron,

      I’ve been reading this blog almost since its inception, but this is the first time I comment. It has been my go-to energy news and analysis source all this time.

      The quality and depth of all the articles is staggering, and you guys offer this wealth of information, knowledge and know-how to anyone willing to listen without asking for anything in return.

      I can’t express how grateful I am for what you’ve put in motion here.

      Wish you the best,
      Genís

    14. Ron, I owe a debt of gratitude to you, all the folks here and previously on theoildrum.com for teaching me to always cite my sources or be prepared to do so. I have always appreciated your posts even when they appear to disagree with my optimism that technology can help to mitigate the disaster we are sleepwalking into. Fortunately for me we appear to be on the same page politically in our disdain for Trump and his followers and the ideologies they hold.

      Good luck with your future endeavors and remember to always have good stocks of vitamin C and vitamin D on hand to help ease the medical issues 😉 .

    15. Ron, all posts on the oildrum from “Darwinian” have been very good and i always liked to read them. I was quite disappointed when the oildrum closed, but peakoilbarrel was a good continuation of it. I have learned much from this site and especially from you. Thank you for your tireless work.

      I wish you the best for the future, Berndt

    17. Goodbye and good luck to you too Ron. And thank you for all you’ve given us.

    18. I am also a silent reader and I want to wish you all the best. You don’t know how much I appreciated your work and your comments. It was one of the few constant things in my life the last years.

      Thank you for everything!

    19. Ron you are an inspiration in so many ways. Thank you for this blog. I am really going to miss your commentary.
      Thank you for sharing your thoughts on so many things including oil, species extinction, god, and maybe most importantly green bananas. I don’t buy them anymore. Thanks.

    21. I’m running somewhat short of time myself, lol.
      I’m going to miss you like the old friend you are to me, Ron, although I’ve never had the pleasure of meeting you personally.

      I’m sure the fish will be biting for you.

      You can look back on what you’ve done here and know that this blog will be an important research tool used for generations to come by people in many walks of life.

    22. Feeling bereft here, even though we’ve never met personally. Looking forward to your book.

    24. I am one of the many Oil Drum refugees who found a safe harbour here to continue working through our positions, Thanks for putting in the effort and keeping the faith (metaphorically).

    25. I’ve been a reader for years. I appreciate the time you devoted. I will miss your posts and especially your dialogue with Dennis. Enjoy the pontoon boat.

    26. Ron, it has been an absolute pleasure on the most instructive kind to have followed this website since the demise of The Oil Drum.
      My best wishes to you, and I trust you will post the occasional note here.
      All the best,
      Jonathan

    27. You are one of the good ones, Ron. Good luck and God bless.

    28. Best with your projects, Ron.
      (Assuming this is the real Ron Patterson of course.)
      Feel free to periodically drop in if/when you can to let us know how they go.
      I quite like the ideas of the chick, trailer, Alabama and lake/pontoon boat, but would be happy enough with just a cozy trailer, decent setting and a project or two to keep me occupied.

      Agreed about Dennis’ work, minus the forking of the threads into petroleum and non-petroleum.

      I have another comment lying around for the Grand Illusion article’s thread (which I’ll find and post sometime this week).

      “We are living in sin, but at our age, we are not doing a whole lot of sinning.” ~ Ron Patterson

      “Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you’re going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love.” ~ Butch Hancock

      1. Alabama Slammer

        “An Alabama Slammer is a cocktail made with amaretto, Southern Comfort, sloe gin, and orange juice. It is served in a Collins glass. It is also sometimes known as a Southern Slammer…

        References to the Alabama Slammer appear as early as Playboy Bartender’s Guide by Thomas Mario in 1971.

        ALABAMA SLAMMER 1 oz. Southern Comfort, ½ oz. sloe gin, 1 oz. amaretto, ½ oz. orange juice. Pour into highball glass over rocks. Stir.”

    30. Cheers Ron, thanks so much for kickstarting this little thing. I wish you the best of luck. I’m keen to see your next project.

    31. Thanks for everything, Ron. You have changed the way I look at the world. I wish you all the best!

    32. Take care Ron.
      You’ve opened my eyes to a lot of things and granted me the gift of some of your wisdom and knowledge.

      I really appreciate it.

      Live long and prosper Mr. Patterson.

      The Wet One

    33. Dear Ron,

      I have admired you for a long time and love your cut the crap honesty. My father was a lot like that. He lost a son about 30 years ago. He lived only a mile away from me his last 20 years and his last two years I was there 2 to 5 times a day. His last 6 months I injected him twice a day with insulin and walked him to the toilet his last time.

      I can’t help but read between the lines of your comment. Because something tells me your trying to do the right thing and not burden anyone. I respect that. I’m just not sure life works that way. At 80 years old, it’s no longer the dating game. WonderLady is a widow, she knew what she was getting into. Life doesn’t always make lemonade. The two of you might be the best teammates the both of you are going to have. This just might be the time you play the dependent. On the bright side, you don’t have to worry about Alzheimer, even if you can’t find your keys.

      Clean up any loose ends with your children and estate. Make sure everyone knows who’s in charge after your gone and your wishes. My father could have made my life a lot easier had he been more fourth coming or known how things were to unfold after his passing.

      Saude

    34. Another TODer here, hard to believe I’ve been reading your posts for over ten years. You will be missed dearly, best of luck and I hope the best for you. Thanks so much for starting this website, you’ve made a huge impact.

    35. The work you have done to help education us is immeasurable. I’ve learned a lot from your creating a site to allow others to speak their minds and debate the framing of our predicament. I feel humble and honored to have been allowed to read and listen to these debates and occasionally post. Thank you.

      Approximately 50 years ago on my way from San Antonio to Sacramento, I stopped at Alpine, TX and picked up a travel log. One of the residents of the area had mapped out interesting things to see and understand starting at the single traffic light in that town. I picked up the one going south to Big Bend National Park. About 12 miles south of the light, the log said you could stop at the top of a rise and look east and see a peak where lava had covered limestone. It said you could travel there with a camera or rifle and shoot mountain lion that had come up from Mexico.

      A little further on was a ranch you could stop at and hunt for agates. The rancher was wearing a bolo tie with an agate clasp. The agate looked like a petrified daisy rising from the grass.

      I don’t know what you will find that interests you on your travels. I hope you find a lot to enjoy.

  2. Words are inadequate.
    I try to read everything you write and hope to continue doing so.

    1. Ron or Darwinian, learnt so much from you over the years ,is unfathomable . Best of luck for whatsoever you are doing . A request , pop in once a while , if not anything that we all know that you are well . These are bad times with the Corona virus . Take care and be well . Muchos Gracias , Thanks , Koszonom , Dank je well , dhaniyavad , shukriya , meherbani .
      P.S: Dennis, we are usually at odds ,but your work and effort is greatly appreciated .

  3. Ron,

    Thanks for the kind words.

    I am sorry to see you go and wish you all the best, I hope your health improves, please pop in from time to time. You will be missed.

    Enjoy your family in Alabama.

      1. Godspeed Ron, looking forward to seeing the fruits of your last project!

  4. May your remaining days be many and joyful Ron.
    Thanks for sharing your insight, and your platform.

  5. All of the best Ron. Your posts will be greatly missed. Drop in with a picture of a big fish you caught somewhere along the line just to let us know how you are doing.

  6. Ron,

    I have known you from your posts since 1998 at groups hosted by Jay Hansen. I have read a number of books you recommended over the years. I also pulled out of active discussions a number of years ago and these days spend my time reading, watching, and listening what others are saying. I figure that I have an outside chance living another 10 years. I hope that your illness does not get so bad that you have to suffer and check out peacefully. That is what I wish for myself.

    best wishes, Seppo

  7. I will totally miss your “cut the crap” honest posting. This is a sad day for me even though I am lurker. The first thing I look for when I come to the blog to read is “what is Ron saying?”
    Bonne chance
    Karen

  9. I am really going to miss hearing what you have to say Ron.
    I have learned an awful lot from you….
    And I really appreciate all the work you have put into this project over the years.
    Strong work.
    Reality- It is becoming a rare aspect of human discourse in this country, and we could always count on you to call it out.

    I know you have been through some hell, I truly hope you find some peace to enjoy.
    Thank you for it all.

    1. That’s great! That must be very satisfying personally.

      What’s the overall cost per kWh?

    2. Hickory,

      Are you actually involved with the project? Not sure if you were joking because of the name.

      1. Nope, but grazing and photovoltaics can easily co-exist, if the panel spacing and height are done from the start with the goal in mind.
        It will be a commonplace scene by the end of the decade.

        Being in the electricity sector, you may find this new company interesting. I know the fellow behind it.
        https://www.ojjo.com/

      2. Longtimber,

        Are you involved with that project? You seem to know a lot about solar, as if you are an industry insider.

  11. Here is an interesting article from the web site of the British Medical Journal:

    Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science

    When good science is suppressed by the medical-political complex, people die

    Politicians and governments are suppressing science. They do so in the public interest, they say, to accelerate availability of diagnostics and treatments. They do so to support innovation, to bring products to market at unprecedented speed. Both of these reasons are partly plausible; the greatest deceptions are founded in a grain of truth. But the underlying behaviour is troubling.

    Science is being suppressed for political and financial gain. Covid-19 has unleashed state corruption on a grand scale, and it is harmful to public health.1 Politicians and industry are responsible for this opportunistic embezzlement. So too are scientists and health experts. The pandemic has revealed how the medical-political complex can be manipulated in an emergency—a time when it is even more important to safeguard science.[snip]

    Suppression of science and scientists is not new or a peculiarly British phenomenon. In the US, President Trump’s government manipulated the Food and Drug Administration to hastily approve unproved drugs such as hydroxychloroquine and remdesivir.15 Globally, people, policies, and procurement are being corrupted by political and commercial agendas.16[snip]

    The stakes are high for politicians, scientific advisers, and government appointees. Their careers and bank balances may hinge on the decisions that they make. But they have a higher responsibility and duty to the public. Science is a public good. It doesn’t need to be followed blindly, but it does need to be fairly considered. Importantly, suppressing science, whether by delaying publication, cherry picking favourable research, or gagging scientists, is a danger to public health, causing deaths by exposing people to unsafe or ineffective interventions and preventing them from benefiting from better ones. When entangled with commercial decisions it is also maladministration of taxpayers’ money.

    Politicisation of science was enthusiastically deployed by some of history’s worst autocrats and dictators, and it is now regrettably commonplace in democracies.20 The medical-political complex tends towards suppression of science to aggrandise and enrich those in power. And, as the powerful become more successful, richer, and further intoxicated with power, the inconvenient truths of science are suppressed. When good science is suppressed, people die.

  12. Ron,
    Thanks for your extraordinary work and many contributions. These include your own essays and comments, and your maintenance of a rare website in which discussion is driven by evidence, rather than beliefs.
    Enjoy life, and good luck in all of your endeavors,

  13. Ron,
    I’ve always liked your anti-BS stance on issues and clear, rational thinking. Also, I love your clear and to the point graphs. I’m not sure if any of us will be able to fill your enormous shoes. You will be sorely missed.

  14. All of the best Ron, We all know ur on a mission, but make time to B R E A T H some fresh Alabama air and enjoy sunsets/sunrises while witnessing evolution in real time. Perhaps I can slow down long enough to break away and take a 4-hour roadtrip and come check up on you. Keep in touch.

  15. I’ve lurked here since the start without ever once posting but wanted to say thanks Ron, you’ve been one of my go-to commentators for ages.

  16. Ron,
    Thank you for work and commentary. It was important that you set up this site after the Oil Drum. I hope your project goes well.
    Take care and perhaps make the move after the vaccine is available.

  17. Ron,

    Thanks for the SEVEN GREAT YEARS. Happy trails in North Alabama. Sounds like a great place to be.

    All the best,

    Steve

  19. Looking at Virus dynamics,
    Particle size – mask is like chain link fence stopping mosquitoes.
    The minimum mast would be a 3M type M100 to protect a wearer.
    Aerosols suspension range in still air =100 Meter+
    Trillions of Virus particles in 1 gram of poo.
    Media Blackout on you own health and boosting your immune system.
    Junk Food, Junk News, Junk Mind, Junk Health ( Gerald Celente)
    makes one question the TPTB agenda.
    Ivor Cummins seems to be spot on when it comes to the #1 killer – Heart Disease.
    I’m unqualified to comment on following or anything on Virus, but watch out for the rats.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mboEkVl9ooc
    Latest from Chris @ Peak Prosperity.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VymMqiyukk

    1. I think that part of the function of masks is to interrupt the various kinds of streams of air that carry various particles: sneezes, coughs, talking, and last & least, breathing. Slow down the air stream, and you significantly reduce the volume of particles that reach the face.

    2. …also aerosol particles are much bigger than viral particles.

      There’s multiple studies showing the efficacy of masks.

      Studies were focused on showing that infectious people were less infectious while wearing masks, but have also shown that not-infected people obtain significant levels of protection from wearing a mask.

      There does seem to be considerable evidence as well that Vitamin D and Zinc are useful precautionary measures. Originally, i thought that was just an artefact, but now it’s being recommended by some of my medical associates.

      1. “There’s multiple studies showing the efficacy of masks.” Links? I think there are studies both ways, but seems such subject is shadow banned. Seems to depend on application. ASAIK, No mask is certified by US Gov for prevention of viral infection. I’m told by pathologist to use a real mask if you are at risk, not a diaper. A N100 type has the breath out valve to keep the filter effective, but it does nothing to protect others. Preppers have gas masks.

        1. If you pay attention, there’s study after study, but you have to pay attention.

          Here are some from reputable sources.

          https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8
          https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
          https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
          https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

          There’s dozens more, and they’re very easy to find.
          Asia, Europe, North America, South America. Take your pick.

          Here’s a story from today’s Washington Post.
          https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/20/mask-danish-study/

          There’s opinion, informed opinion, and expert opinion.

      2. Zinc lozenges appear to be effective against other corona viri, so it’s a good bet for this one.

        1. i have read that keeping a high Vitamin D level generally helps with other respiratory illnesses like colds and flu.

          I don’t know how accurate that is, but I’ve started taking it and will keep my levels up all winter.

          1. There’s strong correlation between D blood levels and resistance from Covid. There hasn’t been a prospective study – that would be time consuming and expensive to do, so no private company will take that on.

            Another reason for expanded public investment in medical R&D.

            1. There’s strong correlation between D blood levels and resistance from Covid.

              I hang with virologists who have (and are) treating patients (thousands) in the North East.
              They have not had the data that D is a factor. But they are awfully busy.
              I take it daily.
              (in the infection faze {first 10 days}, it probably is good. After that, little infection, and one is fighting a different battle, and it could possibly be harmful- pure speculation)

  21. Distributed Storage market expanding
    https://sonnenusa.com/en/sonnencore/
    Note that Shell owns Sonnen.. This maybe suitable for Grid defection , Unlike Powerwall, Evervolt-Panasonic, Generac, Solar Edge, all Korean makes and all that use Nickel Oxide cells. Elon has already said that all Stationary is going to LiFe / LFP chemestry. IMO sol-ark is the only game if you want Utility and want to own your own power. All others have dependencies on outside infrastructure. ie Sticks and poles, Grid and Internet.

  22. When shopping for a EV – Demand 2-way charging. Got to have progess, While this promised, it’s not widely available yet. That way you can use the Vehicle as a power plant and transfer energy to a car in need. Otherwise, you are being taken advantage of. IIRC, NEE passed XOM as the largest energy company in the world in market cap.

  23. Thank you so much for all you have done, Ron. I have followed you since back in the oil drum days, but have never posted. I have learned so much from you. It is hard to think of not having you here.
    Good luck & joy with your move, and your plans for your remaining years, Stephen

  26. Wish you well on your trip and you being nearer your family.
    I was a big reader of your blog back when it began. It was a great source of information. Thanks for your work.

  27. It is very sad to realize that I will no longer see your frank comments, clear rational judgments, sometimes harsh, uncompromising. You are a good guy Ron. I wish you the best of luck. I hope you finish that other work of yours and post the link.
    Yours faithfully
    Alexander

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